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Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

theguardian.com

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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#31

Post by draugadrotten »

venomsnake wrote: post #10
tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

And it makes things worse. The idea that you have to tiptoe and thought police yourself around some group of people is sure way to antagonize part of the society against that group.

Makes you think about their motives for adding such an exceptional warning.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#32

Post by chroma »

The Charlie Hebdo attacks show that these days, real satire of Islam can't be done without significant risk of violent reprisal. If you doubt that statement, remember The Book of Mormon. (The play, not the actual book.) Could you imagine Trey Parker and Matt Stone making an equivalent Broadway play about Islam? Could you imagine them calling it The Qur'an to Google-bomb the original? Even if they disregarded their own safety, dozens of organizations would do their best to stop it. Venue owners wouldn't take the risk. Insurers wouldn't accept standard policies. Audience turnout would be lower, fearing attacks. And yet, both religions are similar in their ridiculousness. One just happens to encourage less violence in its hosts.

For a little while, we'll all pile-on the cartoon Muhammad bandwagon in show of support. But after this dies down, who will be the first to step forward with some new blasphemous ridicule? Who will single themselves out, risking their life, their family, their friends?

Whoever does so will certainly be braver than me.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#33

Post by chernevik »

Guthur wrote: post #6
icebraining wrote: post #3

Speaking on Today, [Omer el-Hamdoon, president of the Muslim Association of Britain] said causing offence “just for the purpose of offending” was not freedom of speech. Distancing yourself from the extremists [FAIL]

Just because someone doesn't take your side in debate does not necessarily mean they took some other non affiliated point of view.

From the article --

Omer el-Hamdoon:"what’s happening here is not that different from what we witnessed back in 2005 with the Danish cartoons when media outlets went into a cycle of just publishing the cartoons just to show defiance. And what that caused is more offence."

It's pretty clear that the likes of Mr. el-Hamdoon want it both ways. They want to sound supportive of free speech, but they want that speech curtailed to their liking.

No, they wouldn't kill anyone themselves. Yes, they are fostering a dangerous notion of "incorrect" speech that is very dangerous to the whole idea of free speech. Those dangers are so obvious that it is very hard to assign good faith to those preaching it.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#35

Post by fafner »

olavk wrote: post #23
neals wrote: post #7

I used to think society would, at some point, grow up and leave religion behind. But lately, it just feels like a far 'lower' form of religion is just taking over. I think that western christianity has made some big strides. For example, by leaving all the violence behind. Now the violent ones are winning. This makes me sad for the future of Europe.

Western Christianity certainly haven't left violence behind. Just take the christian terrorist Anders Brevik who killed 80 people in Norway.

Breivik isn't a Christian terrorist. He described himself as not being overly religious. He is also very critical of modern (I think that's what's meant by Western here) Christianity, both in the Church of Norway and Catholicism.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#36

Post by venomsnake »

draugadrotten wrote: post #31
venomsnake wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it makes things worse. The idea that you have to tiptoe and thought police yourself around some group of people is sure way to antagonize part of the society against that group.

Makes you think about their motives for adding such an exceptional warning.

Ball gripping fear?

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#37

Post by ddebernardy »

tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

To the Guardian's credit, they did actually publish the cover. As did Libération in France.

US news outlets, as well as some UK outlets, and certainly many more elsewhere including France, cannot be said to have done as much, e.g.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/13/arts/international/charlie...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1134...

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#39

Post by fafner »

icebraining wrote: post #3

Speaking on Today, [Omer el-Hamdoon, president of the Muslim Association of Britain] said causing offence “just for the purpose of offending” was not freedom of speech. Distancing yourself from the extremists [FAIL]

I don't understand how anyone could claim that CH published those comics "just for the purpose of offending". All of the CH comics had messages, very valuable messages in my opinion.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#40

Post by jpgvm »

It takes a great deal to stand up against the advance of political correctness on free speech. Other countries haven't nearly done as well as France.

At the end of the day the situation was tragic but the defence of free speech against prevailing winds is incredibly important.

As for religious extremism... I don't think we will see an end until enlightenment spreads and religion fades into historic irrelevancy.

This is happening faster than people think, especially religious people as they can't see out of their bubble. At least here in Australia the vast majority of people may "identify" as Christian but they don't actually practice any semblance of faith. That being said the Christian lobby parties still have an unreasonably large amount of sway due to being a very vocal minority that leverages this weak "identity" of Australians to further their conservative agenda.

Nevertheless there is less and less children becoming indoctrinated into this nonsense and gaining access to real information sooner through the Internet that by the end of my lifetime I expect religion (in it's current form) in developed countries to be all but extinct.

I think extremism will still be around, it will just be over more real issues and less fairy tale beliefs.

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