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African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

siliconafrica.com

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Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#11

Post by saikaisi »

pavlov wrote: post #6
saikaisi wrote: post #3

This is really Horrible. Probably, why 80% of the 10 countries with the lowest literacy rates in the WORLD among adults are in francophone Africa. Namely: Benin (40%), Burkina Faso (26%), Chad (34%), Côte d’Ivoire (49%), Guinea (29%), Mali (23%), Niger (29%), and Senegal (42%).

That sounds simplified. Mali, Chad and Niger are inland desert countries whose enormous total land area consists mostly of Sahara. They would still be desperately poor even if their official language were English, Dutch or Danish instead of French. Conversely we could look at African countries that haven't had to suffer meddling from a colonial parent, and they don't seem to be much better off. Liberia has been indep…

and curiously only Francophone Africa is more impacted by colonial meddling ...

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#12

Post by saikaisi »

alain94040 wrote: post #8

That articles looks bogus. For instance: It’s such an evil system even denounced by the European Union, but France is not ready to move from that colonial system which puts about 500 billions dollars from Africa to its treasury year in year out. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_France , that's pretty much equivalent to the budget of the French government. If that number were true, France finances o…

the 500 billions is the compounded amount over 50 or 60 years, as I understand

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#13

Post by jpatokal »

saikaisi wrote: post #5
haliou wrote: post #4

My first post on HN :) I'm not sure the situation is a simple as the author implies. It is true that when the French left Guinea in 1958 they took everything with them. Eventually Guinea turned to communist Russia with even greater consequences. The author claims "Right for France to pre-deploy troops and intervene military in the country to defend its interests". This is not true as it's a defence agreement against…

>"For example they did not intervene for any side during the 2002-2004 civil war in the Ivory Coast." That's no true. France supported Alassane Ouatarra, the current president who lost the election, but was backed by France which troops fired on people on the street and also bombarded with helicopters the presidential palace to force the elected president Laurent Gbagbo to give power to Alassance Ouattara supported b…

Uhh, it's nowhere near that simple. Despite Gbagbo the incumbent doing everything he could to handicap Ouattara, Ouattara was announced as the winner with 54.1% of the vote. The next day, Gbagbo then "cancelled" the results from seven regions, which gave him 51.45% of the vote and allowed him to claim victory. Unsurprisingly Ouattara (and the international community in general) did not buy this, and civil war ensued.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Ivorian_crisis

And while Ouattara's troops weren't angels, neither were Gbagbo's, which is why he's at the International Criminal Court now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Gbagbo#Arrest_and_tran...

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#14

Post by jacques_foccart »

pavlov wrote: post #6
saikaisi wrote: post #3

This is really Horrible. Probably, why 80% of the 10 countries with the lowest literacy rates in the WORLD among adults are in francophone Africa. Namely: Benin (40%), Burkina Faso (26%), Chad (34%), Côte d’Ivoire (49%), Guinea (29%), Mali (23%), Niger (29%), and Senegal (42%).

That sounds simplified. Mali, Chad and Niger are inland desert countries whose enormous total land area consists mostly of Sahara. They would still be desperately poor even if their official language were English, Dutch or Danish instead of French. Conversely we could look at African countries that haven't had to suffer meddling from a colonial parent, and they don't seem to be much better off. Liberia has been indep…

Takes some balls to put forward the DRC as an example of an untouched country. Let's see: Tshombe's plane was hijacked and he was jailed in Algeria just as the French-backed "mercenaries" (including, allegedly, Bob Denard) were about to take the place over from the American-backed Mobutu. Che Guevara and a few hundred Cubans on one side, people like "Mad Mike" Hoare on the other (not American, but...). Talking of Belgian military intervention, ever head of Jean Schramme?

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#15

Post by vinceguidry »

pavlov wrote: post #6
saikaisi wrote: post #3

This is really Horrible. Probably, why 80% of the 10 countries with the lowest literacy rates in the WORLD among adults are in francophone Africa. Namely: Benin (40%), Burkina Faso (26%), Chad (34%), Côte d’Ivoire (49%), Guinea (29%), Mali (23%), Niger (29%), and Senegal (42%).

That sounds simplified. Mali, Chad and Niger are inland desert countries whose enormous total land area consists mostly of Sahara. They would still be desperately poor even if their official language were English, Dutch or Danish instead of French. Conversely we could look at African countries that haven't had to suffer meddling from a colonial parent, and they don't seem to be much better off. Liberia has been indep…

Ethiopia fought off Italy, had some really bad times, but is doing well now. They actually had something like a state with which to fight off European aggression.

The French really were terrible at colonial administration. They had a way of letting emotions guide their decision-making and no compunctions whatsoever about asserting how morally superior they were to the locals. This led to truly horrific massacres on both sides, that continued until very recently, where most of the rest of the post-colonial world had largely moved on.

You see the remnants of that colonial legacy in the French attitude towards African and Islamic immigrants. As bad as classism gets in the US, it only rarely provokes violence. French civil unrest is often terrifying, as the Charlie Hebdo massacre has shown. That was actually tame compared to a lot of what happened in Algeria.

There are deep, raw, and gaping wounds that will probably never be healed. The old generation will just die off and the younger generation are, due to French apathy, falling under the spell of Islamism.

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#16

Post by saikaisi »

haliou wrote: post #10
saikaisi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"For example they did not intervene for any side during the 2002-2004 civil war in the Ivory Coast." That's no true. France supported Alassane Ouatarra, the current president who lost the election, but was backed by France which troops fired on people on the street and also bombarded with helicopters the presidential palace to force the elected president Laurent Gbagbo to give power to Alassance Ouattara supported b…

You are mixing the facts. I stated the 2002-2004 war. The election were held in 2010. During the civil war[1] 2002-2007 The country was divided in two with the French military separating both side, the French were authorized to act by UN resolution 1528 (very important!) The elections were held in October 2010, the counting took months and the Electoral commission declared Alassane Ouatarra the winner in December 201…

Similary to the case of Lybia, the UN resolution didn't ask France to bombard the presidential palace, and also shoot people on the street.

We need to care more about facts and deeds not UN wind bags.

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#17

Post by jacques_foccart »

jacques_foccart wrote: post #7

Another foreigner discovers the wonders of Francafrique, but he gets the mechanism wrong. Although trying to study the place from third party sources is like watching Rashomon, this is pretty much how it works: - "friendly" dictator is installed and maintained so long as he cooperates. - aid packages are sent over (in cash, by plane) and loans made with friendly zero interest - money flies straight back via Geneva to…

I can't edit my post due to being a new user, so I'll add that the incentive for foreign countries is not just financial; it's VERY helpful for countries to have a source of black funds that Congress or whoever is supposed to be accountable for it does not "need" to "see". This is Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men all over again - the public enjoys the "blanket" and doesn't ask about what it takes to maintain it.

It's also helpful in inter-agency rivalries, as whoever has the most resources, particularly black resources, can be the most efficient. Believe it or not there are several factions in France, aforementioned DGSE is the "official" actor outside the borders, but the DST has their own agents as well (yes, outside the territory) and then you have the military intelligence apparatus which competes against the other two and is in theory supposed to run the "mercenaries".

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#19

Post by haliou »

saikaisi wrote: post #16
haliou wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mixing the facts. I stated the 2002-2004 war. The election were held in 2010. During the civil war[1] 2002-2007 The country was divided in two with the French military separating both side, the French were authorized to act by UN resolution 1528 (very important!) The elections were held in October 2010, the counting took months and the Electoral commission declared Alassane Ouatarra the winner in December 201…

Similary to the case of Lybia, the UN resolution didn't ask France to bombard the presidential palace, and also shoot people on the street. We need to care more about facts and deeds not UN wind bags.

I'm not a defender of France or what they did. I'm African born in the Ivory Coast and simply wanted to clarify a few things from the article.

Re: African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax

#20

Post by pm90 »

jacques_foccart wrote: post #17
jacques_foccart wrote: post #7

Another foreigner discovers the wonders of Francafrique, but he gets the mechanism wrong. Although trying to study the place from third party sources is like watching Rashomon, this is pretty much how it works: - "friendly" dictator is installed and maintained so long as he cooperates. - aid packages are sent over (in cash, by plane) and loans made with friendly zero interest - money flies straight back via Geneva to…

I can't edit my post due to being a new user, so I'll add that the incentive for foreign countries is not just financial; it's VERY helpful for countries to have a source of black funds that Congress or whoever is supposed to be accountable for it does not "need" to "see". This is Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men all over again - the public enjoys the "blanket" and doesn't ask about what it takes to maintain it. It's…

This is very disturbing. I had thought the days of dirty financial politics were getting over, but it seems that the fight is just getting more intense. I can see why though: if France or US does not take a side, China will (used to be Soviets earlier). So its always this stupid game which others play and the common Africans are haplessly caught in the middle wondering why their countries are so impoverished.
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