Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#71

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Jan 11, 2015, 8:38 AM UTC

nullc wrote: post #65

upofadown wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look at this the other way as well. The scanning beam only causes a low exposure at a point because it is scanning very quickly. The peak radiation is quite high. We know the dangers of cumulative dose because that is most useful in the case of low level exposure over a long time. Could it be possible that the risks are different for brief intense exposure?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model If it holds, it's 'good' for the scanners because their high power shouldn't be penalized; bad for them because any dosage increases risk.

It is still rather contraversial but radiation hormesis is interesting to read about. Populations have been exposed to relatively high radiation levels from things like the earth (Iran and some places in the US among others), contaminated steel (Taiwan) and various medical procedures. These groups have not fitted into the linear no threshold model very well at all, and there is an argument that low doses may actually be a health advantage. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664640/

Edit: keep the body scanners and bomb scanner away from me please.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#72

Post by godDLL » Sun, Jan 11, 2015, 10:34 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #30

k-mcgrady wrote: post #20

>> "The X-ray vans—which reportedly cost between $729,000 and $825,000 each—are designed to find organic materials such as drugs and explosives." As much as I don't like this at least explosives are a good reasoning for using them. Drugs? Come on! Exposing citizens to radiation, no matter how little, so you can find people in possession of drugs is ludicrous. Every time you think the war on drugs has reached the heig…

but but but ... sales of drugs might be used to fund terrorism (tm) !!!! Seems to me, reading between the lines, you sympathize with terrorists.

/end sarcasm

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#73

Post by pluma » Sun, Jan 11, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #20

>> "The X-ray vans—which reportedly cost between $729,000 and $825,000 each—are designed to find organic materials such as drugs and explosives." As much as I don't like this at least explosives are a good reasoning for using them. Drugs? Come on! Exposing citizens to radiation, no matter how little, so you can find people in possession of drugs is ludicrous. Every time you think the war on drugs has reached the heig…

Exposing citizens to potentially harmful radiation in order to protect citizens from potentially harmful substances. Typical War on Drugs logic.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#74

Post by pluma » Sun, Jan 11, 2015, 2:36 PM UTC

Fourth Amendment issues aside, as a non-American this strikes me as an obvious violation of Human Rights (especially the right to bodily integrity in particular).

I'm not sure what the situation is like in the US, but I'm fairly certain that in my country you couldn't be subjected to an x-ray scan without consent, unless there is sufficiently strong suspicion and an x-ray scan would be the least invasive option (e.g. this is why you can be forced to give a blood sample if you refuse to take a breathalyser test when assumed to DUI).

I have no idea how random drive-by x-rays on the street could be considered reasonable and not in violation of Human Rights unless you're in a freakin warzone.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#75

Post by ZeljkoS » Sun, Jan 11, 2015, 11:59 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

They have a very interesting way of reporting radiation exposure (ditto with airport scanners). Instead of reporting the total body accumulated dose, they report the dose a single scanning beam sweep induces over a small area. These machines use a tight beam (or several) which sweep. Each individual beam when measured in isolation likely deliver 0.1 microSievert of radiation. However the total body dose (accumulated…

From http://as-e.com/products-solutions/cargo-vehicle-inspection/...:

"Dose to Cargo: Less than 0.1 microSievert (μSv) per scan (equivalent to 10 microRem (μrem)), at an average speed of 5 km/h (3 mph) at a scan distance of 1.5 m (5 ft). Should a stowaway accidentally be scanned, the effective dose is well below the ANSI specified limit for accidental exposure and is equivalent to flying two minutes at altitude."

In other words:

a) "Beam" is not over a small area but over the entire scanning area.

b) The 0.1 μSv dose is for entire cargo.

c) The total body dose in above case is therefore much below 0.1 μSv (because person is much smaller than cargo).

Also read this: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/...