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My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

johannhari.com

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Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#101

Post by duckingtest »

I would describe modafinil as an internal task-switcher disabler. For this reason, I don't use it often. For example, if I accidentally start reading reddit, on modafinil this will probably end in writing long, thoughtful comments for the whole day. The thought of stopping simply doesn't occur. My stomach will rumble, but I won't feel hunger. Conversely, changing tasks in response to external input becomes much easier.

This uncontrollable concentration applies to all levels on all tasks, which is why modafinil kills creativity, at least for me. If I have lot of grunt job that doesn't require creativity, sure, modafinil will make me plow through it. However, in today's world valuable grunt work is rare, so it's not that useful. It kills task-related mind wandering, it kills daydreaming, it kills original thought. Sort of a zombie state really.

Constant use would probably make me a top burger-flipper at McDonald's or similar, but that's it.

Another very big cons is its long half-life, which eventually results in sleep deprivation. Sleep at normal hours becomes next to impossible.

Good for emergency situations when I have to be able to function despite severe sleep deprivation (like not sleeping for one or two nights).

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#102

Post by duckingtest »

amelius wrote: post #70

I'm just wondering how people can order this stuff over the internet and expect it to be the genuine thing... It just sounds extremely incautious to me.

It sells in India for about one eighth of online's price. The price of ten 200mg Modalert pills is about $2.5. Counterfeiting simply doesn't pay, as it would kill any return business for minuscule one-time gain.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#103

Post by duckingtest »

jotm wrote: post #45
throwaway3173 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's an opposition to it. People just don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by gambling on Modafinil having no long term effects.

Tell that to the idiots who make every slightly risky (aren't they all?) drug illegal or, if we're lucky, prescription only. Oh, that includes Modafinil, and I'm counting the days until someone notices Phenylethylamine.

>I'm counting the days until someone notices Phenylethylamine

You can't ban chocolate in the current world. Dark chocolate can contain up to 0.7% of PEA.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#104

Post by visakanv »

duckingtest wrote: post #101

I would describe modafinil as an internal task-switcher disabler. For this reason, I don't use it often. For example, if I accidentally start reading reddit, on modafinil this will probably end in writing long, thoughtful comments for the whole day. The thought of stopping simply doesn't occur. My stomach will rumble, but I won't feel hunger. Conversely, changing tasks in response to external input becomes much easie…

> The thought of stopping simply doesn't occur. My stomach will rumble, but I won't feel hunger. Conversely, changing tasks in response to external input becomes much easier.

This sounds like my daily life, actually. (I'm pretty sure I have ADHD). I've tried modafinil a couple of times, and interestingly, I have the opposite reaction- I find that it makes me quicker on my feet, more 'on edge'. I respond and react to things faster.

Interesting.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#105

Post by teddyh »

wpietri wrote: post #98
teddyh wrote: post #85

The story tells of how some guy took some drug and apparently had positive effects. How does this anecdote affect me? Any medication I use should be tested in clinical trials and be prescribed to me personally, or be deemed safe for sale over the counter; i.e. non-prescribed use. Are other people using these anecdotes as sufficient reasons to actually take random drugs? I have to ask: Are these people insane ? If you…

Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol? How about your artificial light and your exercise? Or perhaps your intake of B-complex vitamins or various edible oils? The various natural dietary supplements available at every Walgreens and CVS? All of these have known effects on mood and productivity, and pretty much everybody just tries 'em and sees what happens. Nearly as many people have the experience of g…

> Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol?

Strawman. I said “or be deemed safe for sale over the counter”.

> many people have the experience of going to a doctor, getting diagnosed with something moderately uncommon, and going through a trial-and-error treatment process where they are guiding what happens as much or more than the doctor.

The key word here are, I think, “going to a doctor”, as opposed to unsupervised self-medicating, or at least without supervision of a trained and licenced professional.

> What is covered by prescription varies a lot from country to country […]

Yes; see my other comment. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869314)

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#106

Post by jwdunne »

throwaway3173 wrote: post #25

I've been taking 200mg of Modafinil probably on average of 3 times a week for the best part of 4 years now and it has certainly changed my life for the better. It is very effective at raising my mood and motivation. I disagree that it doesn't have a stimulant-like effect though. Before taking Modafinil, I had a very high caffeine tolerance (I could drink as many cokes or coffees as I liked and not even notice the eff…

The point about caffeine is important. For me, mixing caffeine and modafinil is not a pleasant experience, both with tea or coffee. The experience is counter-productive as I often feel too jittery to do anything and my mood crashes.

As a northern Brit, the tea flows like water in the office I work at. It's quite hard to resist, again, as a northern Brit.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#107

Post by heyutoo »

Robin_Message wrote: post #96
heyutoo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been mostly a lurker here on HN for the past few years, and haven't made many comments. So for the sake of my learning curve, can anyone clue me in to the reasons for down votes? I don't take them personally. Just curious and wanting to learn. Is it because the comment seems spammy? Or is it off topic? Sloppy writing?

I didn't downvote, but: it seemed alightly off-topic; also it's in the worst possible range of anecdote/bad science (N=1, no blinding, it's a vitamin supplement so I suspect it contains no active ingredients anyway, you claim anti-depressants don't work on you†). gwern's articles on how they try out drugs is very good at explaining how to do blinding etc. and is actually credible. Do something like that and you'll de…

Thanks for the feedback.

Really my purpose in the comment wasn't to convince anyone they should take this. My intention can be summed up by "Hey, I tried this and it seems to work for me and is safe; it's just vitamins. If it piques your interest, do your own research on it and decide whether you want to try it"

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#108

Post by [deleted] »

Robin_Message wrote: post #96
heyutoo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been mostly a lurker here on HN for the past few years, and haven't made many comments. So for the sake of my learning curve, can anyone clue me in to the reasons for down votes? I don't take them personally. Just curious and wanting to learn. Is it because the comment seems spammy? Or is it off topic? Sloppy writing?

I didn't downvote, but: it seemed alightly off-topic; also it's in the worst possible range of anecdote/bad science (N=1, no blinding, it's a vitamin supplement so I suspect it contains no active ingredients anyway, you claim anti-depressants don't work on you†). gwern's articles on how they try out drugs is very good at explaining how to do blinding etc. and is actually credible. Do something like that and you'll de…

[deleted]

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#109

Post by mikerichards »

bjwbell wrote: post #95
mikerichards wrote: post #83

So what's the modus operandi when going to the doctor? I've got some legitimate symptoms - lack of energy, focus..especially in the afternoon, but I'm wondering what people are saying to their doctors? Are you suggesting Modafinil? Also, what's the cost for a monthly supply with insurance?

A nap in the afternoon might be as helpful. I found taking an hour nap or hour run after lunch helps with my focus/drive. Lifestyle changes shouldn't be downplayed.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I don't live in Spain so that's not an option ;)

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#110

Post by jwdunne »

jwdunne wrote: post #106
throwaway3173 wrote: post #25

I've been taking 200mg of Modafinil probably on average of 3 times a week for the best part of 4 years now and it has certainly changed my life for the better. It is very effective at raising my mood and motivation. I disagree that it doesn't have a stimulant-like effect though. Before taking Modafinil, I had a very high caffeine tolerance (I could drink as many cokes or coffees as I liked and not even notice the eff…

The point about caffeine is important. For me, mixing caffeine and modafinil is not a pleasant experience, both with tea or coffee. The experience is counter-productive as I often feel too jittery to do anything and my mood crashes. As a northern Brit, the tea flows like water in the office I work at. It's quite hard to resist, again, as a northern Brit.

Also, to add, modafinil gives me bruxism and tension in the jaw. If you have any issues with your TMJ, this will definitely not help.
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