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Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

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Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#61

Post by xnull2guest »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #58
tesq wrote: post #36

What implications does this program have for the 4th amendment right to not have a search conducted without a warrant? If they're used on the public at large, generating mass probable cause or a blanket expectation that anyone could be a dangerous terrorist as justification is a scary precedent. It's reminiscent of the FLIR vans used to catch marijuana growers that the Supreme Court determined to be mobile Constituti…

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." What happened? War on drugs, 9/11, profit motive, and political motives.

And rising tension between nuclear powers.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#62

Post by tesq »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #58
tesq wrote: post #36

What implications does this program have for the 4th amendment right to not have a search conducted without a warrant? If they're used on the public at large, generating mass probable cause or a blanket expectation that anyone could be a dangerous terrorist as justification is a scary precedent. It's reminiscent of the FLIR vans used to catch marijuana growers that the Supreme Court determined to be mobile Constituti…

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." What happened? War on drugs, 9/11, profit motive, and political motives.

Power will always opt for securing and expanding its hold, and in its paranoid frenzy it is evident that rights, people and property are expendable to the vanguards of absolute security.

I don't think anything happened that hasn't been happening since that quote was written. Those are just some new excuses to solidify the grip that the ruling class has at home and abroad.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#65

Post by nullc »

upofadown wrote: post #52
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

They have a very interesting way of reporting radiation exposure (ditto with airport scanners). Instead of reporting the total body accumulated dose, they report the dose a single scanning beam sweep induces over a small area. These machines use a tight beam (or several) which sweep. Each individual beam when measured in isolation likely deliver 0.1 microSievert of radiation. However the total body dose (accumulated…

You can look at this the other way as well. The scanning beam only causes a low exposure at a point because it is scanning very quickly. The peak radiation is quite high. We know the dangers of cumulative dose because that is most useful in the case of low level exposure over a long time. Could it be possible that the risks are different for brief intense exposure?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model

If it holds, it's 'good' for the scanners because their high power shouldn't be penalized; bad for them because any dosage increases risk.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#66

Post by 0x5f3759df-i »

tunap wrote: post #40
ak217 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The health concerns of radiation exposure of backscatter X-ray have never been properly characterized at all. One specific concern that was raised with airport scanners is that existing methods of estimating safety limit dosage simply don't work with backscatter, which deposits the majority of radiation in the surface layers of the subject (i.e. in the person's skin), which has much lower volume (and therefore higher…

"I see little issue with imaging a car if there's nobody in it" If you were to spend some time at a border checkpoint sitting in a chainlink cage(literally) in the accompaniment of other travelers as your vehicles are batch scanned you may change your mind. More so if that checkpoint happens to be located 100+ miles north of the border.

I think he is talking health concerns, not privacy concerns.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#67

Post by 1stop »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #46
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah, they don't catch terrorists because their presence stops terrorists from trying certain kinds of attacks. Perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing one of my patented elephant whistles. I haven't heard of a single customer who's been the victim of an elephant attack while carrying one. Keep yourself and your loved ones safe for a very low price!

We have already seen attacks that were stopped because of airline security. One example is Richard Reid, who had to resort to an unusual apparatus in order to get his bomb onto the plane. This resulted in the failure of his attack, which otherwise would have had most likely succeeded.

He boarded in Paris... so the TSA had very little to do with it... He went through the "normal pre TSA" security... so you are actually disproving your own point...

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#68

Post by 1stop »

briandear wrote: post #43
SamReidHughes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny how the TSA has had virtually zero success in catching terrorists, yet we still allow them to anally probe us in the cause of safety. Yeah, they don't catch terrorists because their presence stops terrorists from trying certain kinds of attacks. That's the whole point. Also I don't know why you think they don't screen the 23 year old arabs more thoroughly -- because by all reports, people that are more "…

Yet toddlers and grandmothers are still getting enhanced screenings.. Behavioral and intelligence-based screening is far more effective than random screening. And enhanced screenings didn't stop the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber. Had they simply ran the underwear bomber's name through, they would have found that his father reported his risk to the U.S. embassy. They have advance notice of every passenger. Why n…

The underwear bomber boarded in Amsterdam... TSA had nothing to do with it.

Seriously the TSA is bullshit, as it only applies to americans... I assume because the 9/11 attacks originated in the U.S.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#69

Post by 1stop »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #48
briandear wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet toddlers and grandmothers are still getting enhanced screenings.. Behavioral and intelligence-based screening is far more effective than random screening. And enhanced screenings didn't stop the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber. Had they simply ran the underwear bomber's name through, they would have found that his father reported his risk to the U.S. embassy. They have advance notice of every passenger. Why n…

If you don't have random screening, then people who would pass the other screenings won't have to deal with an element of uncertainty to their plans. This is enough to deter some attacks. People like McVeigh, who would get past behavioral or intelligence-based screenings, would not want to plan an attack that relied on not being selected for a random screening, even if it's a small chance.

McVeigh was never screened by anyone. He used a car bomb... What security process stops a car bomb!?

I think in Iraq they use closely placed concrete barriers forcing cars to swerve, and they stick marines behind them. Maybe we should do that in front of all the buildings... everywhere.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#70

Post by lostlogin »

jpmattia wrote: post #49
ak217 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The health concerns of radiation exposure of backscatter X-ray have never been properly characterized at all. One specific concern that was raised with airport scanners is that existing methods of estimating safety limit dosage simply don't work with backscatter, which deposits the majority of radiation in the surface layers of the subject (i.e. in the person's skin), which has much lower volume (and therefore higher…

> The health concerns of radiation exposure of backscatter X-ray have never been properly characterized at all. To amplify: The former head of homeland security profited handsomely from their approval. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12... I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if there is ever a larger-than-average number of cancers in the TSA agents. Even if it is merely statistical fluctuatio…

I may be more cynical than you but I'm pretty confident that being in his shoes won't be unpleasant whatever the outcome. The taxpayer will sort it all out.
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