Would a Geiger tube detect these X-Rays? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8875 I'm thinking Arduino boards and webcams.
Why not just come up with a gas flow counter? That's what they do in real life rad labs.
Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
21–30 of 75 posts
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone is shooting ionizing radiation at me, on purpose, without my permission, I want to know about it. Especially since I am helping pay for it. If it was me doing it to them, it'd be assault.
Yes. Although there are a lot of sources of ionizing radiation being shot at you, and it generally works out. I'd be worried more about the fourth amendment.
The fouth amendment concern is particularly valid. This amounts to a search as there is penetration into one's protected property and no probable cause exists just by virtue of being in public. A passive detector, on the other hand would be completely reasonable, such as a radiation detector because the material being detected is being emitted, basically being broadcast, while invasive detectors are actually 'entering' the area being targeted.
My question is, how many bombs have been discovered? What's the success rate? Probably close to zero; otherwise they'd be trumpeting their successes all over the media to justify further expansion of this type of search.
It's funny how the TSA has had virtually zero success in catching terrorists, yet we still allow them to anally probe us in the cause of safety. I'd rather have a hijacking once per decade and go back to the pre 9-11 airport security system than go through a proverbial strip search every time I fly. 9-11 didn't happen because of a catastrophic failure of airport security: it was a failure on multiple levels -- from immigration enforcement, intelligence failures, etc. El Al screening methods are most effective, but TSA's political correctness has then treating an 85 year old black woman from Birmingham with the same level of scrutiny as a 23 year old from Egypt with Yemeni entry stamps in the passport.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#23> "releasing the documents would hamper the department's ability to conduct operations and endanger the lives of New Yorkers." Then apparently the lives of New Yorkers are protected by security through obscurity, with absolutely no evidence of efficacy and absolutely no auditable evaluation of safety. I'm thinking that a strong education in science should be a requirement for anyone who touches these programs with a…
>> "releasing the documents would hamper the department's ability to conduct operations and endanger the lives of New Yorkers."
Ha, am i the only one that parsed that as "releasing the documents would hamper the department's ability to {conduct operations, endanger the lives of New Yorkers}"?
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#24> "releasing the documents would hamper the department's ability to conduct operations and endanger the lives of New Yorkers." Then apparently the lives of New Yorkers are protected by security through obscurity, with absolutely no evidence of efficacy and absolutely no auditable evaluation of safety. I'm thinking that a strong education in science should be a requirement for anyone who touches these programs with a…
Same goes for NSA's "protection" through mass surveillance.
"These programs work" - they said. Except for when they were actually audited and the auditors found no evidence of the programs "working".
But whether they work or fail, they always seem to ask for more surveillance powers and bigger budgets. Mike Masnick also had a good article on this:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150109/06555029648/uk-in...
I think it's more a problem of following the leads they do have. 9/11 attackers were known to be planning an attack, the Charlie attackers were also known (not through their surveillance, but from a tip from another country). But they didn't follow through.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#25(Swedish. Politically speaking right-wing in that spectrum. In the US political spectrum; probably centrist.)
If I were a NYC citizen, I'd approve of a police authority that was innovative enough to bring these things onto the streets. NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone is shooting ionizing radiation at me, on purpose, without my permission, I want to know about it. Especially since I am helping pay for it. If it was me doing it to them, it'd be assault.
> it'd be assault Terrorism is the trendy thing.
Are you saying the NYPD, the DHS and the NSA are terrorist organizations that benefit from terrorism?
Be careful. Expressing that opinion openly and convincing others of its truth is ThoughtCrime. And could lead to your being extraordinarily rendered to a country that would torture you; or to your being tortured by agencies allied to those named above.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. Although there are a lot of sources of ionizing radiation being shot at you, and it generally works out. I'd be worried more about the fourth amendment.
The fouth amendment concern is particularly valid. This amounts to a search as there is penetration into one's protected property and no probable cause exists just by virtue of being in public. A passive detector, on the other hand would be completely reasonable, such as a radiation detector because the material being detected is being emitted, basically being broadcast, while invasive detectors are actually 'enterin…
> It's funny how the TSA has had virtually zero success in catching terrorists, yet we still allow them to anally probe us in the cause of safety.
Yeah, they don't catch terrorists because their presence stops terrorists from trying certain kinds of attacks. That's the whole point. Also I don't know why you think they don't screen the 23 year old arabs more thoroughly -- because by all reports, people that are more "terrorist-looking" do get screened more thoroughly and frequently find themselves subject to "random" inspection.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#28They have a very interesting way of reporting radiation exposure (ditto with airport scanners). Instead of reporting the total body accumulated dose, they report the dose a single scanning beam sweep induces over a small area. These machines use a tight beam (or several) which sweep. Each individual beam when measured in isolation likely deliver 0.1 microSievert of radiation. However the total body dose (accumulated…
The health concerns of radiation exposure of backscatter X-ray have never been properly characterized at all. One specific concern that was raised with airport scanners is that existing methods of estimating safety limit dosage simply don't work with backscatter, which deposits the majority of radiation in the surface layers of the subject (i.e. in the person's skin), which has much lower volume (and therefore higher radiation absorbed per volume) than the whole body. (http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2010/11/5810/ucsf-scientists-speak-...)
The privacy concerns are peanuts compared to the potentially massive harm that the X-rays caused in terms of skin cancer susceptibility.
The worst case is pretty scary and regardless of the outcome, I think the government (we the taxpayers) will be on the hook for huge liability litigation in the future regarding these machines.
It has legitimate uses for scanning cargo, and I see little issue with imaging a car if there's nobody in it, but one of these things driving down the street irradiating everyone is potentially a massive health problem.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. Although there are a lot of sources of ionizing radiation being shot at you, and it generally works out. I'd be worried more about the fourth amendment.
The fouth amendment concern is particularly valid. This amounts to a search as there is penetration into one's protected property and no probable cause exists just by virtue of being in public. A passive detector, on the other hand would be completely reasonable, such as a radiation detector because the material being detected is being emitted, basically being broadcast, while invasive detectors are actually 'enterin…
"Passive" scanners violate the 4th amendment just as much as "invasive" ones.
Kyllo vs United States determined that thermal imaging without a warrant was a search and constituted a violation of a person's 4th amendment rights. "Off the wall" and "through the wall" surveillance are one and the same.
Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans
#30>> "The X-ray vans—which reportedly cost between $729,000 and $825,000 each—are designed to find organic materials such as drugs and explosives." As much as I don't like this at least explosives are a good reasoning for using them. Drugs? Come on! Exposing citizens to radiation, no matter how little, so you can find people in possession of drugs is ludicrous. Every time you think the war on drugs has reached the heig…
but but but ... sales of drugs might be used to fund terrorism (tm) !!!!
Seems to me, reading between the lines, you sympathize with terrorists.