Education Inflation • Hacker News Board

Re: Education Inflation

#21

Post by TheElder » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:05 AM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #14

TheElder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly asking, what is racist about my comment? It's about race, but why is it racist? I don't mean to be racist, nor do I want to be a racist. I removed the article.

Your post assumes that only "whites" are your peers, and that in competition, non-"whites" are somehow automatically disqualified; and that lack of CS accredited "whites", as opposed to non-"whites" is "probably bad for the overall state of the country", i.e. that the relative status of "whites" has a moral worth.

What you saw as an implied worth for whiteness was my view that most of my peers in school were not US citizens, while most of the white programmers in the university and workforce were and are. Many of those students didn't plan on staying in the US. My wife, who is Asian and a math major, wasn't born in this country, nor were many of our closet friends so I feel as if I have an inside view of these type of things. Not being a citizen seems to have drawbacks. How many job positions have you seen that say no sponsorships, no H1's, or US citizens only? I see this as an advantage for me, a US citizen, English as a first language, programmer with a CS graduate degree.

My previous positions and my current position with a large US company, have and is, composed of nearly all white developers. In effect, my peers are white, and probably most of the HN's community has a similar experience.

Re: Education Inflation

#22

Post by ramchip » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:06 AM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #14

TheElder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly asking, what is racist about my comment? It's about race, but why is it racist? I don't mean to be racist, nor do I want to be a racist. I removed the article.

Your post assumes that only "whites" are your peers, and that in competition, non-"whites" are somehow automatically disqualified; and that lack of CS accredited "whites", as opposed to non-"whites" is "probably bad for the overall state of the country", i.e. that the relative status of "whites" has a moral worth.

I think what he means is that most people from the other countries will go back to their countries once their studies are done, hence most of his peers will be white, and few of them will have benefited from higher education in CS/engineering.

His comment does reference race, but it doesn't sound racist to me.

Re: Education Inflation

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:06 AM UTC

hooande wrote: post #9

TheElder wrote: post #6

As a white male, I felt pretty good in graduate school (for computer science). I was often the only white in my graduate classes. While there were plenty of Chinese, Koreans, and Indians, there weren't any whites. This made me realize what a great opportunity I had. The whites were mainly in liberal arts, business, marketing, accounting, and English. What does that mean for me? It means that my peers, mainly other wh…

Wow. This is one of the most racist comments I have ever seen on hacker news.

[deleted]

Re: Education Inflation

#24

Post by RevRal » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:10 AM UTC

Fixnum wrote: post #16

RevRal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to understand. Are you saying that the competent are being held back?

As far as I can tell, opening the universities to the masses damages the classes, standards, and student-faculty relations to the point where those who really 'ought' to be at university rather than at technical colleges don't benefit in the same way as previously. Perhaps this is just elitism, but I get the feeling that the 'bright' entering students are still the 'bright' graduating students, but gain much less dee…

Nice.

I see another problem. The bright are bored, school is tedious, and they go unrecognized. Then the less intelligent "excel."

Good thing AI research will need more and more intelligent people.

Re: Education Inflation

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:15 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #20

TheElder wrote: post #6

As a white male, I felt pretty good in graduate school (for computer science). I was often the only white in my graduate classes. While there were plenty of Chinese, Koreans, and Indians, there weren't any whites. This made me realize what a great opportunity I had. The whites were mainly in liberal arts, business, marketing, accounting, and English. What does that mean for me? It means that my peers, mainly other wh…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Education Inflation

#26

Post by barrkel » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:20 AM UTC

bokonist wrote: post #17

barrkel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post assumes that only "whites" are your peers, and that in competition, non-"whites" are somehow automatically disqualified; and that lack of CS accredited "whites", as opposed to non-"whites" is "probably bad for the overall state of the country", i.e. that the relative status of "whites" has a moral worth.

If his peer group is in fact white, then it's not racist, just a statement of reality. And as for competition, most people only care about competing within their own peer/status group. And yes, it is bad for the economy if whites are significantly under invested in engineering. It's bad for the economy if anyone or any group is under invested in engineering. Anything "assumed" or implied by his post, is added by you,…

See now, you just equated peer group with status group. If you believe that "white" can be a peer group, then that seems to imply that you also believe that "white" can be a status group, which is a far more troubling scenario.

Racism is not about making disparaging remarks about someone of another race. It's about prejudging, i.e. assuming that certain things are true, just because of that person's race.

Re: Education Inflation

#27

Post by AmericanOP » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:22 AM UTC

College provides a general sense of accomplishment over a long period of time- a relaxed mental state conducive to growth and figuring out what you would like to do in the future.

Re: Education Inflation

#28

Post by barrkel » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:23 AM UTC

ramchip wrote: post #22

barrkel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post assumes that only "whites" are your peers, and that in competition, non-"whites" are somehow automatically disqualified; and that lack of CS accredited "whites", as opposed to non-"whites" is "probably bad for the overall state of the country", i.e. that the relative status of "whites" has a moral worth.

I think what he means is that most people from the other countries will go back to their countries once their studies are done, hence most of his peers will be white, and few of them will have benefited from higher education in CS/engineering. His comment does reference race, but it doesn't sound racist to me.

Why would you assume that someone is going to "go back" simply because of their skin color? How do you know that he wasn't writing about American citizens of various ethnic origins?

Re: Education Inflation

#29

Post by RevRal » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:25 AM UTC

AmericanOP wrote: post #27

College provides a general sense of accomplishment over a long period of time- a relaxed mental state conducive to growth and figuring out what you would like to do in the future.

Alone, not worth the price.

Re: Education Inflation

#30

Post by barrkel » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 4:26 AM UTC

TheElder wrote: post #21

barrkel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post assumes that only "whites" are your peers, and that in competition, non-"whites" are somehow automatically disqualified; and that lack of CS accredited "whites", as opposed to non-"whites" is "probably bad for the overall state of the country", i.e. that the relative status of "whites" has a moral worth.

What you saw as an implied worth for whiteness was my view that most of my peers in school were not US citizens, while most of the white programmers in the university and workforce were and are. Many of those students didn't plan on staying in the US. My wife, who is Asian and a math major, wasn't born in this country, nor were many of our closet friends so I feel as if I have an inside view of these type of things.…

Your peers are developers; the distinguishing criterion is not race. By using one criterion as shorthand for another, as you seem to be doing, is prejudging. The way you write makes it sound like your non-white co-workers are not your peers.