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The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

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Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#261

Post by FeeTinesAMady »

deong wrote: post #182
FeeTinesAMady wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all that would have been needed would be for the money that the government used to bail out the banks instead go directly to the depositors, and for the government to seize all the bank's assets to help pay for that. All they would need would be the relevant records. That would only be impossible if the depositors had so much money invested in the banks that there wasn't enough to cover them. Was that the case?

> That would only be impossible if the depositors had so much money invested in the banks that there wasn't enough to cover them. Was that the case? Well, you're probably right in that I think there would have been enough money between the banks' assets and the amount the government contributed to cover the amount immediately owed. Probably. I'm just guessing really, but let's say that's true. What would the next day…

I don't think they would, though. I think people would see that their money is in fact safe, as the government guaranteed it, because now the possibilities are 1) the bank will fail and the government covers the deposits and liquidates the bank, and 2) the bank doesn't fail and the deposits are safe anyway.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#262

Post by cheepin »

beams_of_light wrote: post #250
iguanayou wrote: post #224

I taught high school for 5 years and made the same decision. The biggest factor for me was how the schools were being administered; just a few examples: - Competition among students, instead of being used as a motivator as piles of research suggests, was specifically DISALLOWED because it might make certain students feel bad. - When a student fell behind because they were slacking off in class, it was the teacher's r…

I don't feel that competition would be healthy between students. Some kids are simply not going to be as smart as others, due wholly or in part to genetic, socio-economic, or emotional parameters. Making them feel like garbage on a daily basis at school will not help them at all.

If you structure competition as Winner(s) + everyone else (as opposed to a full ranking system), you gain a powerful motivator for competitive students, while not necessarily convincing the others that they are garbage.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#263

Post by AndrewKemendo »

ashark wrote: post #200
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #175

My wife is a school teacher and so I see this from her constantly. She argues that people don't value her work but that it is vitally important. So my question to her is, if it is so valuable then why aren't people willing to pay for it? The answer seems to be, because they can't afford it. People with money spend egregious amounts of money on schooling and private school teachers are reasonably well paid. Publicly f…

Private school teachers are reasonably well-paid? In general? My wife and most of my friends are teachers. Private schools are where you go when you're so sick of public schools' bureaucratic BS that you're willing to take a 1/3 to 1/2 (!) cut in total compensation to get away from it and start feeling like you're a Teacher instead of a secretary who also teaches a bit on the side. None of my friends have done it, bu…

Interesting. Maybe it is just the market we have been in, but the prep type schools (Maret, Dalton etc...) and "academies" have very competitive pay.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#264

Post by yummyfajitas »

logfromblammo wrote: post #217
randomnumber53 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small point, but I think the writers of Breaking Bad agree with you more than you think they do. The show was in no way endorsing meth cooking, as it ruins (nearly) every aspect of Walt's life. In fact, the show was basically saying, "Hey, teaching needs to be more valued in our culture, because right now 'good' teachers can't afford what they need and feel discouraged." Now, of course the meth-cooking was an exagger…

We can take Walter White as a methaphor (yes, pun intended) for science professionals in the US. He started a science-based business with partners. Then he had to sell his work to the business and cash out to meet the additional living expenses of supporting his family, particularly with respect to the medical needs of his kid. Thus, he was unable to reap the benefits of his own innovation. Then he started teaching c…

When faced with a financial crisis brought on by staggering medical expenses, he decides to turn outlaw.

He was faced with a financial crisis brought on by his family's insistence that he visit an out-of-network doctor.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#265

Post by MarkMc »

rdtsc wrote: post #12

Great points. This, I think is one of the fundamental problems: --- If parents and local decision-makers really value education (and there is a small portion of the community that does), student and teacher morale would be much different. --- The overall environment matters more than the teacher. We've mentioned it here not too long ago as well. Doesn't matter how fancy the workbooks and new materials or how hard we…

> No new "Common Core" tests are going to help that child learn if they are afraid they might not eat dinner that evening

Perhaps the test will help such children learn by identifying excellent teachers.

Imagine three students who regularly go hungry are taught by three different teachers: Teacher A doesn't even find out that her student is going hungry. Teacher B finds out there is a problem and calls the parent once or twice to explain that it is the parent's responsibility to ensure the child does not skip meals.

Teacher C discovers the problem and visits the parent at home to explain in person why it vital for the long-term outlook of the student that the student not go hungry. In addition: (a) The teacher tries to understand the root case of the problem - is the parent on drugs, or has to work 3 jobs, or has an abusive husband? (b) The teacher investigates government or charity services that might have an impact on the problem. (c) The teacher visits the student's household regularly and tries various ways to motivate the parent to correct the problem. (d) The teacher contacts other members of the student's family to explain the problem and try to get them engaged. (e) The teacher celebrates any academic success of the student with all members of the family and links this success to their efforts. (f) The teacher gives the student her phone number and tells the student to call with any questions about the homework - this gives the teacher the opportunity to find out in real-time if the student is going hungry at home, giving a deeper understanding of extent of the problem and perhaps allowing the teacher to tackle the problem in real-time.

Now tell me: Which student will perform better on Common Core tests?

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#266

Post by JediWing »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #242
JediWing wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is flawed logic. You're selecting for status-seeking personalities, not competence Huh? So anyone who wants autonomy and to be well paid is a status seeker? Sounds more to me like they're a typical human being. > You don't even seem to consider the possibility that you've already managed to recruit as many competent teachers as can exist, and that you have so many incompetent ones because your demand outstrips…

> Wow. Way to grossly oversimplify one of the most important public policy issues of our time. You can't ignore externalities that affect student performance a I can. If I hire a contractor to build a house in the shape of a giant ice cream cone, then I expect that result. At the very most, he should shortly conclude that it is not possible (I'd still be liable to pay him for some reasonable hours that it took to com…

> I work as a university, and every term I have to prepare a program that sends out end of term letters (probation and suspension). Which college do you think gets the most of those, per capita?

Sounds like the system is weeding out the "gamers" pretty well in that case.

> Just because money is wasted elsewhere doesn't mean all should be invited to waste even more money.

No but it does mean there's plenty of low priority things to cut to go towards education.

> if you raise the status of the job, you get status-seekers, if you raise the pay, you get money-seekers.

This is categorically false. Taken to the extreme it means we should pay teachers NOTHING. Then we would get only the really good ones!

Funny thing though, those people. It's almost as if they weren't simply optimizing for a single factor like money or status. It's almost as if they consider a wide variety of factors from pleasure, intellectual challenge, concern for legacy and leaving a mark, and yes gasp whether or not they can support themselves and their family and to what degree of comfort.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#267

Post by sitkack »

eropple wrote: post #59
sitkack wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just fix something with more money. Analogously, it would be like fixing a soup with too much salt by pouring in more water and sour cream, might work, might not.

Yes, that was my point, thank you for repeating it.

total agreement, how do we fix it?

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#269

Post by jqm »

dbrannan wrote: post #57
jqm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they don't set out to be bad teachers. But the way it is set up now, education does seem to get a fair share of people looking for an easy path. Not sure this is the best group to be educating our youth.

You get what you pay for.

You get no more than you pay for. You don't always get what you pay for.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#270

Post by keithpeter »

keithpeter wrote: post #103

"Bad teachers can game any system; good teachers can lose their focus trying to take new requirements seriously." This is a major point and it applies to educational 'systems' across the world.

Downvoters: I'm interested in your reasons. My observation above is based on several decades of classroom experience.
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