The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities • Hacker News Board

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#81

Post by eli_gottlieb » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #33

batbomb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easy solution for that is a stipend and receipts when you go over the cost for a few defined scenarios (for example, $60 to get to the airport, $20 a meal). If you are a cheap bastard, you make a few bucks. If it took three train trips and a taxi to get to the airport, keep the receipts.

The bureaucrats feared exactly the result of what you propse: That people would spend more than they eat and pocket the difference. The old honor method was to add up what you spent on food and claim it as "per diem". The maximum was far more than you actually needed most places (Note: There's a big difference in food costs between, for example, Geneva and Bangkok). The new method required receipts with your name on…

> The bureaucrats feared exactly the result of what you propse: That people would spend more than they eat and pocket the difference.

And yet, allowing exactly that is the easy, rational way to cap costs.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#82

Post by HCIdivision17 » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

srevir wrote: post #55

jurassic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT, like the library system, provides infrastructure in support of the university's core mission. I've never heard anybody say, "Damn, the network here just works too well... let's sack the IT folks so we can focus on our research like we used to!" Likewise, no professor or student is likely to say "Do we really need all these reference books?" about the library. The value and need for these complex services is almos…

I rarely see any nuance given to the rants against admin staff. My response above yours here was to a former professor's supposedly serious past suggestion to dismiss all admin staff. It is not the first time I have heard this idea. All staff are so frequently painted with the same broad brush, with no effort to distinguish as you have done here. These folks running the Campus network command rather good salaries by…

I'll be honest, it never even occured to me that IT support would be considered admin overhead. Of course, I was shocked to find out laborers considered me management, given I'm an engineer. To me, complaining about IT overhead is like complaining about maintenance, or housekeeping: this is vital infrastructure that should work seamlessly and hidden in the background. (I'm a behind-the-stage kind of person, though.)

But, given how I've seen some bureaucrats complain about the cost of housekeeping, I guess anything's fair game. And don't even get me started on the unavoidable cost of maintenance...

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#83

Post by benbreen » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

http://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/details.cfm?JobCode=1760...

This (utterly depressing) academic job ad is, to me, the worst example yet of the trend toward recasting professors and teachers as "service providers" overseen by better-paid administrators. Featuring requirements like "Bring the course of study to life with engaging live webinars or relevant recorded webinars that enhance expected competencies" and the demand that the "course mentor" pays for their own conference travel and academic journal subscriptions, and responds to all emails from students within 4 hours, as well as an injunction to "Communicate with positive regard, respect, and solution- focus with members of other departments."

I can't get behind the bashing of all academic administrators, but whoever wrote this job ad strikes me as a pretty good example of what is going wrong in university administration right now.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#84

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #65

ssalazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As a current grad student at a large research university, I have no interest in what little administrative work I do have to do, and my professors exhibit similar disinclinations. That being said, at my school, the jobs of many of the admins I interact with seem to be navigating other administrative systems in the university. Its ridiculous and the solution needs to involve less bureaucracy, but not the complet…

You have capture exactly the purpose of my proposal. If you put people in charge of administration who have better things to do with their time so they don't waste time on administration. When you put professional admistrators in charged of administration then all you end up with is the need for more administration.

If you accept the axiom that some administrative tasks are pointless and unnecessary, then there are two ways for academics to avoid doing them.

They can refuse to do them. Eliminate the pointless, unnecessary task, and accept the non-consequence of not doing it.

They can hire a professional administrator to do it. Naturally, the administrator will in turn hire an underling to perform all the unnecessary tasks, and retain all vital tasks for himself. But now that the administrator has an employee, that creates an additional management burden, to ensure that person is doing the pointless unnecessary tasks correctly and before the deadline.

It is clear that professional administrators and academics have different incentives with regard to administrative overhead. One would prefer to see it grow without bound, whereas the other would prefer to see it shrink to its minimum viable size.

The colossal mistake that too many organizations have made in the past is to allow the administrators to control the administrative budget. That is the one thing that absolutely cannot be delegated away from the people doing the core work of the business.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#85

Post by jobposter1234 » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 7:27 PM UTC

tensor wrote: post #41

fluidcruft wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to totally not grok compliance at a fundamental level. You're blaming the tail for wagging, but the dog's tail doesn't wag just because it chooses to.

This is not an external compliance issue, it is entirely the university management that is responsible. Plus, it is only one example out of many. I was never in the system deep enough to be able to recount the other examples, but I certainly remember lots of drama around forced classroom aids and other nonsense. Excessive bureaucracy is not some inevitable thing that you cannot help. It's driven by people who directl…

Some of my favorite sci-fi authors like Asimov (Foundation) and Harry Harrison (Stainless Steel Rat) might disagree with your last sentence. ;)

Personally, I think both sentences at the end of your comment are correct: it is inevitable that bureaucracy grows, and it is driven by the bureaucrats.

It's almost like a "law" of economics, which, of course, describes human behavior. So they can at once be the cause of something that is inevitable.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#86

Post by warcher » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 8:43 PM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #25

warcher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hahaha, man, I hope he joined that boxing gym like I suggested last month. Get the bad blood out, man. It's good for you.

I got back into fencing. Thanks :) I still stink at it, and am likely to keep stinking at it, but it's a good workout in a competitive environment.

Take care of yourself. And with all due respect, pump the brakes, man. The behavior you are claiming to indulge in is NOT OK.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#87

Post by niels_olson » Fri, Jan 09, 2015, 8:55 PM UTC

fluidcruft wrote: post #75

niels_olson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you I have seen new directors whose not-so-qualified spouses magically find jobs in other departments. Nepotism, pure and simple.

That's a different topic and is frankly even worse in the private sector.

Not really. Gotta keep expanding the admin jobs for the spouses.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#88

Post by jacalata » Sat, Jan 10, 2015, 1:10 AM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #30

jacalata wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hey, it's that sociopath dude again.

At the time, I felt that a bear hug was the best way to avoid an actual fight, and it worked. If you want to co-write a post on de-escalation techniques, I'd genuinely love to! What would you have done in that situation to defuse it?

Walked away? I don't think I'm the slightest bit interested in ever collaborating with you on anything, sorry.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#89

Post by spiritplumber » Sat, Jan 10, 2015, 6:42 AM UTC

warcher wrote: post #86

spiritplumber wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got back into fencing. Thanks :) I still stink at it, and am likely to keep stinking at it, but it's a good workout in a competitive environment.

Take care of yourself. And with all due respect, pump the brakes, man. The behavior you are claiming to indulge in is NOT OK.

The episode I related above was from either 2005 or 2006, I forget.

The last time I was in a fight, was in August of 2013, someone in a very altered mental state came at me with a knife. I believe at that point a therapeutic hold (bear hug and lift) is more than justified :)

I'm a big guy and that gives me some power. Power comes with responsibility, like "don't call the cops and potentially get some crazy person killed when you can handle it yourself and then call an ambulance".

Thanks for the advice! I have, generally, followed it.

Re: The Growth of Administrative Staff in Universities

#90

Post by danieltillett » Sat, Jan 10, 2015, 9:51 AM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #84

danieltillett wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have capture exactly the purpose of my proposal. If you put people in charge of administration who have better things to do with their time so they don't waste time on administration. When you put professional admistrators in charged of administration then all you end up with is the need for more administration.

If you accept the axiom that some administrative tasks are pointless and unnecessary, then there are two ways for academics to avoid doing them. They can refuse to do them. Eliminate the pointless, unnecessary task, and accept the non-consequence of not doing it. They can hire a professional administrator to do it. Naturally, the administrator will in turn hire an underling to perform all the unnecessary tasks, and r…

This was my strategy in regards pointless tasks - just don't do them. What I found is nothing happened 95% of the time and for the other 5% someone would visit me in person and tell me that it was really important.