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The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

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Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#141

Post by FeeTinesAMady »

deong wrote: post #130
FeeTinesAMady wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. You seem to be assuming that it's impossible to bail out the bank's clients and let the bank itself fail, but that is not, in fact, impossible. That would insulate all those families from that collateral damage while still allowing the scumbags at the top to feel the effects.

> You seem to be assuming that it's impossible to bail out the bank's clients and let the bank itself fail, but that is not, in fact, impossible. It probably was impossible. Banks don't just function as holding pens for your money. They're (by design) overly leveraged based on the idea that not everyone will want their money at the same time. If the bank fails, you need to come up with all the money at once, and ther…

But all that would have been needed would be for the money that the government used to bail out the banks instead go directly to the depositors, and for the government to seize all the bank's assets to help pay for that. All they would need would be the relevant records. That would only be impossible if the depositors had so much money invested in the banks that there wasn't enough to cover them. Was that the case?

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#142

Post by TeMPOraL »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #92
zaroth wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found the best way to discern what kids are learning at school is to, you know, talk to them for a few minutes. I think the idea of trying to stack rank teachers and schools works about as well as stack ranking engineers. It's garbage-in garbage-out. The entire premise is faulty. "You can only improve what you can measure" works great on manufacturing lines and click-through-rates. Not so much, strike that, not…

How do you scale "talk to them"? One person can't talk to everyone. Once you have two people talking, how do you know if person As 8 ranking is really bigger than person Bs 7? Further, if we accept your nihilistic belief that measurement is impossible, how can we know if teaching matters at all? What other sectors of the world does science fail in?

It's not that you can't measure; it's that tests (of the type we currently use) are a really wrong tool for the job.

Also such big dependence on tests seems to me like the result of people trying to structure out trust from their relationship.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#143

Post by Kenji »

scornwell wrote: post #49

I don't think there is another profession who's need is so widely advocated for, yet so pathetically enticed. Put some money on education, make it a desirable job, and then watch the world change as talented people try for those positions. Now, just figure out how to get the money committed to education instead of people giving RollsRoyce, Bentley, Ferrari, etc their best years ever.

You forgot "instead of waging war" ;P

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#145

Post by jdoenejdk »

analog31 wrote: post #42
willvarfar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us not from the US, which [conservative groups] are you talking about? Republicans in general? Or some other group?

"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." -- Jerry Falwell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell

And how many US elected Republicans in Congress share those views?

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#146

Post by TeMPOraL »

WalterBright wrote: post #116
femto wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three arguments against standardised tests: 1) As system, schools tend to teach towards the test, at the expense of a diverse education. 2) The tests essentially test how good a student is at doing tests, rather than what they have understood and learned. Children can do brilliantly in the classroom and badly on the test, then be marked as a poor student. 3) The tests are used to categorise the children as they go th…

I don't understand how someone can master a subject yet be unable to answer written questions about it. In my anecdotal 16 years of schooling, I can't recall a single instance of it.

For one, no one is mastering any subjects because they're taught to pass tests, not to understand. Teaching (and learning) to pass tests is less work for everyone, so schools tend to gravitate towards this.

Also, I've seen tests so dumb that the better you understand a subject, the worse your chances are - because questions and answer templates are stupid/made by people who didn't master the subject, and if you understand things well, you're likely to write something that doesn't match the answer template.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#147

Post by douche »

thinkpad20 wrote: post #58
kodreaming wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College-educated means nothing unless you are talking about Africa. With all due respect, people got into education is not really the brightest bunch...

> With all due respect, people got into education is not really the brightest bunch... Is that grammar meant to be ironic? :| Anyway, broadly demeaning a giant group of people is offensive, and the suggestion that most teachers are not bright is ridiculous. Many (most) teachers are very intelligent people, enthusiastic about education and greatly desire to give their students the best possible education they can. Unf…

Statistics are not demeaning http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-f...

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#148

Post by douche »

ck425 wrote: post #89
zacharycohn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(full disclosure, I do not know anything about the town OP is from) It is a big sacrifice when you live in a suburban area, which typically don't have great (if any) public transit options. You could easily be 3 or 4 miles out from the nearest grocery store or shop - let alone your job. In many cities in America, you NEED a car to get around. It's just not feasible to live without one.

Is it a big deal to have only one?

Imagine that you and your spouse both work 15-20 miles away from your home, in different directions (This is common outside of the biggest urban areas). Unless you REALLY like to bike, you need two vehicles.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#149

Post by MarkMc »

rdtsc wrote: post #12

Great points. This, I think is one of the fundamental problems: --- If parents and local decision-makers really value education (and there is a small portion of the community that does), student and teacher morale would be much different. --- The overall environment matters more than the teacher. We've mentioned it here not too long ago as well. Doesn't matter how fancy the workbooks and new materials or how hard we…

> The overall environment matters more than the teacher.

You seem to be suggesting that the quality of the teacher can play only a minor role in the educational outcome for disadvantaged students. Yet there is considerable evidence to support the opposite view. Here is a summary of a few studies as reported in Teaching as Leadership [1]:

"The schools that are highly effective produce results that almost entirely overcome the effects of student background" [2]

"Having a top-quartile teacher rather than a bottom-quartile teacher four years in a row would be enough to close the black-white test score gap" [3]

"Differences in this magnitude -- 50 percentile points in just three years -- are stunning. For an individual child, it means the difference between a 'remedial' label and placement in the accelerated or even gifted track. And the difference between entry into a selective college and a lifetime of low-paying, menial work". [4]

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-As-Leadership-Effective-Achie...

[2] Marzano, R. J. What Works in Schools: Translating Research into Action. Alexandria, Va.: ASCD, 2003, p. 7

[3] Kane, T., Gordon, R. and Staiger, D. Identifying Effective Teachers Useing Performance on the Job Washington, D.C.: Brookings Institution, 2004, p. 8

[4] Peske, H. and Haycock, K. Teaching Inequality: How Poor and Minority Students Are Short-Changed on Teacher Quality: A Report and Recommendations by the Education Trust. Washington, D.C.: Education Trust, 2006, p. 11

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#150

Post by waylandsmithers »

jurassic wrote: post #29

No raises in six years as inflation marches steadily on is a 10% paycut. Criminal. It's a disgrace that our college-educated professional teachers are so under-valued they have to take on multiple side-jobs just to maintain their economic status quo.

college-educated? It's even worse- many schools require teachers to have a masters degree also.
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