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The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

iamjwal.com

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Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#21

Post by [deleted] »

w1ntermute wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #12

Great points. This, I think is one of the fundamental problems: --- If parents and local decision-makers really value education (and there is a small portion of the community that does), student and teacher morale would be much different. --- The overall environment matters more than the teacher. We've mentioned it here not too long ago as well. Doesn't matter how fancy the workbooks and new materials or how hard we…

If the problem is community, why not take the students/families who really do care (from all the schools in a metropolitan area) and put them all in the same school? That would at least be a start.

[deleted]

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#22

Post by willvarfar »

w1ntermute wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #12

Great points. This, I think is one of the fundamental problems: --- If parents and local decision-makers really value education (and there is a small portion of the community that does), student and teacher morale would be much different. --- The overall environment matters more than the teacher. We've mentioned it here not too long ago as well. Doesn't matter how fancy the workbooks and new materials or how hard we…

If the problem is community, why not take the students/families who really do care (from all the schools in a metropolitan area) and put them all in the same school? That would at least be a start.

All the uninterested parents would become really interested around selection time trying to get their kids into the 'best' schools. As soon as the choice is made, however, they'd be back to indifference. School is viewed as delegating responsibility from parent to teacher.

In England there have been so-silly-its-staggering stories of anti-terror legislation being used to spy on parents suspected of lying about their addresses in order to get their kids into particular school catchment areas. You'd imagine that these are parents who super-care. I'm skeptical; I think they are parents who have an intense interest only at the beginning and no lingering part in educating their children.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#23

Post by willvarfar »

waynemr wrote: post #9

The sad and infuriating thing is that good teachers leaving public service is precisely what conservative groups strive for, in their "starve the beast" agendas. As more quality staff leave, they [conservative groups] can claim greater and greater failures in the public system and siphon more tax dollars into private voucher schools.

For those of us not from the US, which [conservative groups] are you talking about? Republicans in general? Or some other group?

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#24

Post by seanmcdirmid »

brador wrote: post #11
nkangoh wrote: post #5

I REALLY wish teaching was as prestigious as say, being a doctor, or investment banker. I read a very interesting [1] book on this and it really just opened my eyes regarding the mediocrity of teaching (not quality per say, but as a profession, which eventually leads to poor education). [1] http://www.amazon.com/Smartest-Kids-World-They-That/dp/14516...

It is (in a free market). China/HK has millionaire private teachers.

China? Really?

The public teachers depend on bribes to get by. The private teachers are just into exploitation and delivering false hopes. Please don't take China as a good example, it is not; even HK is way more dysfunctional than the American system.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#25

Post by ulfw »

nkangoh wrote: post #15
warfangle wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is (in a socialist market). Finnish teachers have some of the utmost prestige.

The mentioned book really talks about how Korea, China (and Hong Kong) along with some European countries do education much differently.

It is in a social free market (Germany). I've never seen a high school teacher having to take on another job. Everyone had their own cars and in particular everyone went one or two multi-week vacation to warmer climates. It's painful to see how little America cares.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#26

Post by frozenport »

blakeja wrote: post #17
tlrobinson wrote: post #6

More like "Waynesboro Rotary Club Teacher of the Year"? Looks like this is blogspam with a linkbaity title. Original was "The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom": http://iamjwal.com/the-tough-decision-to-leave-the-classroom...

BS, link bait / blogspam are any one of the numerous nautil.us or medium.com articles that seem to consistently make it onto the front page of hackernews. Whereas, this article reflects the same sentiments I have been hearing from close friends over the past years who are public school teachers. And it boils down to two facts that I have taken particular note of after listening to their grievances: 1. Government inte…

>>You cannot get quality teachers in the education system without adequate compensation, period.

In Chicago we tried paying them more and didn't see much improvement.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#27

Post by pizza »

WalterBright wrote: post #20

> SOL tests are inherently unfair, I regularly see claims that tests are at odds with learning. What I don't understand is how anyone can tell what kids have learned without some sort of test.

But really, with the way standardized tests are done now, can you even tell what kids have learned with a test?

By which I mean, when kids can't memorize all the stuff that they have learned by heart, and then when they can't produce an exact replica of a procedure or something without some kind of reference, we equate it to their not having learned it in the first place.

Programmers create docs for the purpose of referring to them, doctors must look things up as opposed to simply relying upon a faulty memory, etc.

Kids get the impression that to learn is to fill their memories as opposed to be able to analyze in new scenarios, and that if they can't memorize facts then they are a 'bad learner'. These standards just aren't fair.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#28

Post by animex »

Maybe do some job research before getting an education degree in the US. I think most teachers would have told you it's pretty shitty in general. In Canada, teachers make more than most software developers, ~90k/yr. Still, much of the same bureaucracy exists here as well.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#29

Post by jurassic »

No raises in six years as inflation marches steadily on is a 10% paycut. Criminal. It's a disgrace that our college-educated professional teachers are so under-valued they have to take on multiple side-jobs just to maintain their economic status quo.

Re: The Tough Decision to Leave the Classroom

#30

Post by WalterBright »

pizza wrote: post #27
WalterBright wrote: post #20

> SOL tests are inherently unfair, I regularly see claims that tests are at odds with learning. What I don't understand is how anyone can tell what kids have learned without some sort of test.

But really, with the way standardized tests are done now, can you even tell what kids have learned with a test? By which I mean, when kids can't memorize all the stuff that they have learned by heart, and then when they can't produce an exact replica of a procedure or something without some kind of reference, we equate it to their not having learned it in the first place. Programmers create docs for the purpose of re…

What kind of standard test would you suggest that would determine if a student learned anything?

BTW, you can't get a license to practice medicine without passing a standardized test.

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