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How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

brookeallen.com

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Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#41

Post by humanrebar »

sekasi wrote: post #28

I've done a LOT of interviewing, recruiting and ultimately a lot of saying "no" to people. Over the years I've landed on a series of personal rules on how to do just that. 1. Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve 2. Always let people down gently reinforcing positive notions as well, you never know what state of mind they are in. 3. Always respond to requests for more information This takes me a…

> Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve

This is my inclination: "We liked your attitude, you seem intelligent, and well-spoken, but we have concerns about your knowledge of , maybe start contributing to or experiment in and reapply in a year or two."

...my concern is opening up my company for legal liabilities. Am I just being paranoid?

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#42

Post by slantedview »

nostromo wrote: post #15

I have mixed feelings about this. It's easy to see what's to love: an open, honest, and collaborative hiring process with a boss willing to train employees. Awesome! But he also got about 30 people to spend four weeks building trading software for him. Collectively that's over two years of uncompensated work, the results of which the hiring manager may use for free. And from the perspective of the applicant, how many…

I second this concern. The problem isn't the free work aspect of things - I don't mind working on things for free that I enjoy - it's the finite nature of time. I, and probably most good engineers, don't have this amount of time to spend on things such as this for a hiring that will probably not happen.

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#43

Post by fecak »

I sometimes consult to clients on improving their hiring process. Candidate experience is now a topic that at least some companies consider.

This isn't your typical candidate experience - applying for a vague job ad, being asked to answer 6 puzzle questions, invite to an open house, two days of free training and then left alone for three weeks, followed by a vote by the tribe to see who will get the job.

It's definitely a plus that many of the students were hired elsewhere, but this is likely a method that would only appeal to the unemployed. I hear quite a bit of negative feelings towards companies that ask for extensive amounts of time commitment during the hiring process, and this is probably the highest level I remember.

If most companies asked candidates to go through this process, I expect they would want (and feel entitled to) some explanation at the end of the process.

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#44

Post by smacktoward »

bbcbasic wrote: post #30
protl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've spent the time evaluating a candidate enough to make a decision not to hire them, you know why you aren't going to hire them, the only extra work is passing that information on to them.

What about the great candidate that you couldn't hire because you only have X positions? If you help those candidate by referring them to a job at another company then both the candidates and the other company will love you. Months or years down the track, when you need to hire more, you will have a list of good candidates, and companies that may refer candidates back to you.

> What about the great candidate that you couldn't hire because you only have X positions?

Life's tough all over, you know?

I mean, if you know of an opening they would be good for off the top of your head, sure, go ahead and refer them. But you're not obligated to go find them that opening.

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#46

Post by spott »

nostromo wrote: post #15

I have mixed feelings about this. It's easy to see what's to love: an open, honest, and collaborative hiring process with a boss willing to train employees. Awesome! But he also got about 30 people to spend four weeks building trading software for him. Collectively that's over two years of uncompensated work, the results of which the hiring manager may use for free. And from the perspective of the applicant, how many…

>But he also got about 30 people to spend four weeks building trading software for him.

I don't think he did. He got 13 people to work on problems for 3 weeks. (I assume the rest of the 30 bailed at some point).

They also weren't obligated to stick around (though it turned out valuable to them as well). And they picked up a new skill (APL programming). They also asked for it: "Twenty-seven of the applicants suggested I teach them all first and then make a hiring decision."

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#47

Post by humanrebar »

bbcbasic wrote: post #32

To generalize the point a bit: I don't think enough companies are doing enough to help the ecosystem. Like foresters chopping down the Amazon, or fishers taking the last fish from the ocean, they want to harvest good talent and then stick them in jobs where they can be a cog in the wheel it is hard to grow. They expect other companies to have given them the training or perfect relevant experience. And then we hear co…

I completely agree. I would include supporting open source projects as another way to practice sustainable development. Many kinds of personalities wilt in corporate environments that could work (for relatively cheap wages) on open source projects that benefit everyone.

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#48

Post by S4M »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #29
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #7

The first time I got a front page link to my site on HN, it did this exact same thing, which prompted me to move away from Wordpress. Static HTML ever since. But to comment on the article, I think this is a fantastic idea. I do wonder though how he found so many enthusiastic people. Maybe it's just a new era, but I have a hard time finding people who even want to do a 1 hour coding challenge. He got these folks who w…

About 5 years ago, I moved to another city across the country to work for a small startup. The city was small, candidates were few locally, and maybe fewer still wanting to move there (Lubbock, but my inlaws are nearby, and I liked the idea of my kids getting to see their grandparents). It was the funnest job I ever had, moreso than I could describe. I was hired on as a web developer, but about 3 weeks in they starte…

That's an interesting story. Did you have experience writing firmwares and drivers in C before joining that startup? Did they ask you about it or it came on the spot? I am quite curious.

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#49

Post by ghswa »

humanrebar wrote: post #41
sekasi wrote: post #28

I've done a LOT of interviewing, recruiting and ultimately a lot of saying "no" to people. Over the years I've landed on a series of personal rules on how to do just that. 1. Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve 2. Always let people down gently reinforcing positive notions as well, you never know what state of mind they are in. 3. Always respond to requests for more information This takes me a…

> Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve This is my inclination: "We liked your attitude, you seem intelligent, and well-spoken, but we have concerns about your knowledge of , maybe start contributing to or experiment in and reapply in a year or two." ...my concern is opening up my company for legal liabilities. Am I just being paranoid?

If you're that worried why not cut it short to "We liked your attitude, you seem intelligent, and well-spoken, but we have concerns about your knowledge of ." There can't be any risk there, surely?

Re: How my life was changed when I began caring about the people I did not hire

#50

Post by sekasi »

humanrebar wrote: post #41
sekasi wrote: post #28

I've done a LOT of interviewing, recruiting and ultimately a lot of saying "no" to people. Over the years I've landed on a series of personal rules on how to do just that. 1. Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve 2. Always let people down gently reinforcing positive notions as well, you never know what state of mind they are in. 3. Always respond to requests for more information This takes me a…

> Always explain rationale around the No, to help them improve This is my inclination: "We liked your attitude, you seem intelligent, and well-spoken, but we have concerns about your knowledge of , maybe start contributing to or experiment in and reapply in a year or two." ...my concern is opening up my company for legal liabilities. Am I just being paranoid?

I've never had any issues in years and years.

I guess as long as you're being positive about it, and try to reinforce the shortcomings versus the positives it ends up being a good conversation. Always do it over the phone, email doesn't cut it.

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