Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind • Hacker News Board

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#11

Post by NathanKP » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:05 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Just a note - meditation can have negative side effects: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-k... This article, which has been submitted to HN before, investigates several severe reactions to meditation and the nonexistent research in, or even interest in researching, its downsides. Having a negative reaction to meditation is not surprising, if you think about it. Deep introspection can lead to…

I would argue that if introspection has such harmful side effects for a person that means the person's mental state was already in an artificial and damaged state.

I think in most cases it is better to begin that introspection process and endure some temporary pain in order to work through the root issue rather than trying to put it off by avoiding it.

In other words, avoiding introspection won't solve the problem.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#12

Post by noiv » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:13 AM UTC

applecore wrote: post #3

Isn't this what sleep is for?

Yes, I think that too. And if you investigate Maxwells' Damon and sleep deprivation there are some obvious similarities. Also I always wondered if you go up the tree of life from what point or amount of neurons sleep is actually needed. I believe amoeba do not sleep.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#13

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:28 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #11

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Just a note - meditation can have negative side effects: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-k... This article, which has been submitted to HN before, investigates several severe reactions to meditation and the nonexistent research in, or even interest in researching, its downsides. Having a negative reaction to meditation is not surprising, if you think about it. Deep introspection can lead to…

I would argue that if introspection has such harmful side effects for a person that means the person's mental state was already in an artificial and damaged state. I think in most cases it is better to begin that introspection process and endure some temporary pain in order to work through the root issue rather than trying to put it off by avoiding it. In other words, avoiding introspection won't solve the problem.

[deleted]

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#14

Post by stephengillie » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:30 AM UTC

Meditation is one of those things that people aren't allowed to not like. If you say you don't like it or it's not for you, you get overwhelmed and drowned out by the echo chamber.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#15

Post by vertex-four » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:35 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #11

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Just a note - meditation can have negative side effects: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-k... This article, which has been submitted to HN before, investigates several severe reactions to meditation and the nonexistent research in, or even interest in researching, its downsides. Having a negative reaction to meditation is not surprising, if you think about it. Deep introspection can lead to…

I would argue that if introspection has such harmful side effects for a person that means the person's mental state was already in an artificial and damaged state. I think in most cases it is better to begin that introspection process and endure some temporary pain in order to work through the root issue rather than trying to put it off by avoiding it. In other words, avoiding introspection won't solve the problem.

On the other hand, you need to actually be in a place where you're capable of working through it in the first place, or you get stuck in a worse situation than you were before.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#16

Post by javajosh » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:51 AM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #10

No it's not. It's strength training for your ability to direct your attention. Sleep is the garbage collection.

I like the strength training metaphor - there is even the notion of paramita[1], which are containers for virtues that you fill up over time (I find it quite wonderful to define virtue as the accumulation of past action, rather than some intrinsic quality). In particular, relating to "strength" are the paramitas of determination and will.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81ramit%C4%81

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#17

Post by vidarh » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 12:56 AM UTC

applecore wrote: post #3

Isn't this what sleep is for?

Sleep has vital physical effects, but sleep does not alter your thought patterns other than by replenishing your energy levels and increasing your mental performance.

You may think clearer after sleep, but you think clearer about the same things, and fall into the same mindless patterns.

Sleep lets you think clearer, more logically and faster about what you're thinking about. Meditation helps you clear out attachments and observe and learn about the way you think and why you think the ways you do and clear out the cruft that falls apart under observation.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#18

Post by JulianMorrison » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:03 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Just a note - meditation can have negative side effects: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-k... This article, which has been submitted to HN before, investigates several severe reactions to meditation and the nonexistent research in, or even interest in researching, its downsides. Having a negative reaction to meditation is not surprising, if you think about it. Deep introspection can lead to…

Haven't the Buddhists who invented it, always been aware that you can have bad trips? I recall reading a koan along the lines of:

"Master, I see hell, demons torment me, I'm burning!"

"It's a distraction. Carry on sitting."

"Master, I see heaven, filled with love and bliss!"

"It's a distraction. Carry on sitting."

(heavily paraphrased from decades old memory)

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#19

Post by martinshen » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:03 AM UTC

I use meditation to deepen good thought "rivers". The way I see my mind is... something happens and triggers a thought which goes down the deepest "river". For example, I hear some bad news at work; my mind processes this trigger and goes down the deepest "river" leading me to a feeling of anxiety.

Re: Meditation Is Garbage Collection for Your Mind

#20

Post by meowface » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #6

Just a note - meditation can have negative side effects: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-k... This article, which has been submitted to HN before, investigates several severe reactions to meditation and the nonexistent research in, or even interest in researching, its downsides. Having a negative reaction to meditation is not surprising, if you think about it. Deep introspection can lead to…

Reading this brings to mind very similar stories about people trying marijuana and suddenly undergoing long psychotic episodes and/or becoming diagnosed with psychotic conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar.

The vast majority of these cases always end up being result of a genetic predisposition to psychosis.

That seems exceedingly likely to be the case with those who undergo psychotic episodes due to meditation.

I think highly introspective and mind-alerting experiences and substances like meditation, cannabis, and psychedelics all have the unfortunate side effect of potentially causing latent mental illness to surface. But it only happens when there is a latent mental illness.

Better advice might be to warn people about meditation if their family has a history of mental illness or if a doctor thinks they have an increased risk of mental illness. It should not pose any risks for an average person.