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Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

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Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#41
I agree that data should be data and having companies pay (or otherwise sign up to be exempted) should be considered anti-competitive in such a regulated industry. But that belief won't stop me from using the exemption until the minute the FCC requires otherwise.

My carrier (T-Mobile) exempts streaming music services. It doesn't charge for the exemption and any music service can sign up for it, but it's still against net neutrality principles. It's better than AT&T's method, but only by a little. However, when they started this, I was able to cut from an unlimited plan to just 1GB/mo, and never suffer overages.

Do I disagree with it? On principle, yes. But I'm going to keep disagreeing with it while simultaneously using it as a way to lower my bill while getting around silly and even more innovation-stifling (IMO) data caps and high price mobile broadband.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#43

In the article the comparison of everyone sharing the same road infrastructure is given. Why is the analogy not carried over to public transportation? There are plenty of people who are willing to pay a much lower cost per trip by riding public transportation instead of driving (or even owning) a car. Nobody is claiming that the bus system is anti-competitive to car manufacturers. In fact, the author even states that…

Public transportation is public.

Private shared transportation does not have nearly the same incumbent advantage. Anyone can build or buy a bus, and move people around. There is not Facebook to pay lots of money to ensure that competitors are locked out of providing a similar service.

Moreover, users actually get meaningful choices when it comes to which car or bus to take. ISPs are more like roads, a utility where the options (in many places) are very limited.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this, the T-Mobile FAQ claims they're willing to add legal services if you contact them: http://www.t-mobile.com/offer/free-music-streaming.html Will you add more streaming providers over time? Absolutely! Any lawful and licensed streaming music service can work with us for inclusion in this offer, which is designed to benefit all of our Simple Choice customers. And we want to hear from you! Who do you thin…

If so, then why do you need a throwaway account to side with the Telcos? The issue is once this becomes standard practice those nice words disappear and a whole new monster appears. Its best to nip it in the bud.

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I'll say it with a non-throwaway account: T-Mobile has said they're willing to work with any legal streaming music provider, as stated on their website.

I'm not sure why you would think someone would need a throwaway for that, or why you need to imply someone is a shill for simply reading T-Mobile's website.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#45

In the article the comparison of everyone sharing the same road infrastructure is given. Why is the analogy not carried over to public transportation? There are plenty of people who are willing to pay a much lower cost per trip by riding public transportation instead of driving (or even owning) a car. Nobody is claiming that the bus system is anti-competitive to car manufacturers. In fact, the author even states that…

> Nobody is claiming that the bus system is anti-competitive to car manufacturers.

Have you heard of the GM streetcar conspiracy?( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspi... )

That doesn't make sense in this context though - the analogy breaks down.

The reason why regulation is useful is because unregulated companies collude, form monopolies, fix prices, and eventually kill innovation and prey on their customers. Regulation is a useful tool to provide an even playing field.

Sure, customers may be satisfied with a walled garden now, but how did facebook / twitter / netflix flourish? Using unbiased network traffic. We shouldn't shut the door on new startups.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#46
A clear analog for this issue is television. I do not know, but was there ever such contention over OTA programming vs cable networks?

I view these proposals as very competitive - among mobile carriers, where we see much less competition (in the US at least) than we do among app developers.

It always seems curious to me that those who advocate most strongly to keep the government out of the content of the internet is also most vocal in advocating to get the government into regulation of the means of access. The two are not easily separable.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#47

Regulation is anti-competitive. We don't need regulation, we need competition.

In the days before regulation, there was so much competition it wasn't even funny! Oh wait, there was only one phone company: AT&T. Then they were broken up and the industry became a little more heavily regulated and suddenly there was finally some competition.

Regulation doesn't just appear out of nowhere. It happens because bad things were happening before the regulations were put in place.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#48
Coming from a place where this practice is banned, I wonder how they implement this. Traffic going to certain IPs or IP ranges is exempted? They mention WhatsApp and Twitter, and the first thing that comes to mind is using them as proxies to tunnel through. I don't think it would be against ToS either - you're just asking someone else on the "other side" of those services to access the 'net and get the information for you, and it shouldn't matter one bit if you're speaking English or TCP/IP. :-)

(There's plenty of info on the internet about wanting to use these services while behind a proxy, but seemingly none on using them as a proxy...)

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#49
post #46

A clear analog for this issue is television. I do not know, but was there ever such contention over OTA programming vs cable networks? I view these proposals as very competitive - among mobile carriers, where we see much less competition (in the US at least) than we do among app developers. It always seems curious to me that those who advocate most strongly to keep the government out of the content of the internet is…

You mean that the people most vocal against the government deciding what they can read are also the most vocal against a corporation deciding what they can read?

You are right, those two are not easily separable.

Re: Exempting popular apps from data charges is anti-competitive

#50
This article seems to equate two things – that which is true today, and that which the writer imagines for the future. The future is not fact.

The fact of zero rating is that it is beneficial to consumers, and progressive – the poorer one is, the more zero-rating is likely to help. That is factual, observable, measurable.

The speculation is a slippery-slope argument, and not factual. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but simply that it’s a priori.

Zero-rating is free shipping. I don’t know of anyone that considers free shipping anti-competitive, though one could make the same argument.

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