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The Fire phone debacle

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171–180 of 188 posts

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#171
post #74
post #73

For an example of the phone Amazon should have built, check out the Yotaphone 2: https://yotaphone.com/gb-en/ Wonder if Amazon could buy them?

Wow, did not know about that! What a shame that Amazon didn't go with the dual e-ink/LCD idea, given that they're practically singlehandedly responsible for e-ink going mainstream. Throw in free-with-Prime, Android, and a few carrier discounts (e.g. free data for a year) and I'd happily dump my iPhone in a heartbeat.

Shouldn't it be possible to create an e-ink display behind a transparent LCD? Then you wouldn't need to flip anything anymore. I'm guessing that the backlight might be a problem, but maybe that could be integrated with the e-ink as well.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#172
When it comes to phones, Amazon was in a great situation. It didn't have any baggage in terms of older models. No risk of cannibalizing existing models if the new phone is superior. It completely knew the strenghts and weaknesses of its competitors. All it had to do is plug the weaknesses and provide something which is superior. Something whose uniqueness lies not in useless 3-D gimmicks but solid features which other leaders are overlooking.

For example:

1. Provide a truely great display. This is not necessarily to trump others but something which is just a must. The display is the face of the phone.

2. Provide two SD card slots. Which market leading phone has them? None. With 2x128 GB sdcards (which also happen to be sold by Amazon) and say, 64 GB internal storage, the user gets 320GB of storage. On a phone. Unique? Yes. Useful? Hell yes.

3. Provide two SIM card slots. Granted, there are a whole bunch of phones that provide them but usually not in a phone with 320GB storage.

4. Massive 4000mAh battery. Make the phone slightly bigger, say 5.5 inches to manage heat. As numerous very successful large phones have proven, a big display is not a bad thing for a lot of people.

Without getting into the drawbacks of not latching into the Play Store ecosystem, the hardware i.e. the product itself would have generated so much positive buzz.

Unfortunately, focusing on solid and useful features is often overlooked and in case of Amazon, it squandered a great opportunity.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#173

This has classic Amazon politics written all over it. I'm pretty far removed from anything Kindle/Fire related, but this was my best guess at what happened based off of the Amazon I know: Jeff said make a phone (probably like 5 years ago). They pulled orgs apart and mashed them into this superorg with several VPs and dozens of Directors, with the software teams in Seattle but the hardware folks in a completely differ…

Sounds about right. There's only room for one iconoclast at Amazon: anyone showing resistance to the crazy ideas Jeff came up with would be shown the door. You just don't understand, man: Jeff has a ...vision... and he's never been wrong! . It may be time for a strong board of directors who can reign in the ego a little before we get any more projects reminiscent of Lucas' later films.

My predicted scenario was off mark, based on the article, but what surprised me about it was how much Jeff acted exactly like every Director, VP, and SVP that I'm familiar with (with a handful of suggestions). Being in the supply chain, I've seen Jeff exactly zero times in the entire time I've been here (we're not exactly the flashiest part of the company). But you could have taken almost every instance he was mentioned in this article, replaced his name with Jeff Wilke or Dave Clark, and it would have sounded just as correct.

The funny thing about Amazon culture compared to other corporate cultures is that there isn't much of a Negative Selection going on. You can generally be assured that a VP is going to be exceptionally capable and intelligent. The caveat is that they are also going to be a Yes Man, because their boss demands that respect, and they will require that their own direct reports be Yes Men. It is a culture with hundreds of Stalins...extremely talented technocratic leaders that are right most of the time and wrong a handful of times, but where subordinates are deathly afraid of being contrary in the instances where their boss is wrong.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#174
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "- sw team was kept busy by endless meetings with no end in sight, which significantly cut into any chance of productivity" Sounds like Amazon alright. I was there for two years and this defined so much of my time spent. We'd have endless meetings with endless stakeholders. This would cut deeply into development time, and all scheduling revolved around PM schedules with no regard for the productivity cost of pullin…

I was easily doing ~3 hours of meetings in a given day I just wanted to pull this bit out and highlight it in dancing neon. 3 hours of meetings per day? Not even in a single block? It's astonishing that anything got done at all!

Oh it gets worse.

I joined during the aftermath of the 2008 crisis, and my entire department was put on a hiring freeze, despite having plenty to do and legitimate need for more people.

So we toiled for two years under a hiring freeze as work piled up - but that wasn't even the biggest problem.

As soon as the hiring freeze was eventually lifted, all the managers went nuts with hiring - I suppose in that kind of environment you hire as many people as you can get your hands on since you have no idea if you'll be allowed to hire later. My team of 3 engineers ended up interviewing for 7 open positions at the same time.

So in a given day my schedule would wind up being: 4 hours of interviewing, 3 hours of meeting explaining to people why dev work wasn't getting done, and 1 hour of real work (which wasn't really productive since it's scattered throughout the day).

I decided to get out of that place pretty quickly - so I suppose a team of 2 engineers ended up interviewing for 8 open positions...

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#175
post #134
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen so many people blame Amazon for not including Google Play, but this is really Google's decision. In order to use Google Play Services, you need to make all of Google's services default and unremovable. This was done specifically so companies like Amazon could not include it on devices meant to push competing services. Even though I use plenty of Google software, I am more than happy to see them have compe…

I'm surprised that so few other people on this comment thread seem to get it. Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do. Amazon's sole purpose for this phone is as a way to get phone customers into their ecosystem first, and Google's stuff exists to get people on the Google ecosystem first. A first-party device with Google Play and…

"Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do"

Er... are you sure android apps for gmail, calendar, drive, youtube, maps etc. and not to mention, the play store for android exist for the sole purpose of blocking third parties? Surely they have their own utility to users... no?

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#176

When it comes to phones, Amazon was in a great situation. It didn't have any baggage in terms of older models. No risk of cannibalizing existing models if the new phone is superior. It completely knew the strenghts and weaknesses of its competitors. All it had to do is plug the weaknesses and provide something which is superior. Something whose uniqueness lies not in useless 3-D gimmicks but solid features which othe…

Provide two SD card slots. Which market leading phone has them? None.

Because people don't want them. Very few people would use or want 320GB of storage on their phone.

Provide two SIM card slots.

Also a feature only wanted by a tiny minority of users.

If Amazon made the phone you describe it would be a huge hit with a tiny minority of users. They'd be passionate about it, but the vast majority if people wouldn't care.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#177
"In October, Amazon shocked shareholders when it reported a $437 million net loss for the quarter, its biggest in 14 years."

Please pardon my ignorance on Accounting. I don't have basic Accounting 101 knowledge, but please help me understand this. If I, as an individual, loose certain amount of money, it is most likely from my savings. Otherwise, it must be on my credit card, which means, I lost the bank's money. Eventually, I need to repay.

How can a company that hasn't made much profit over the years, loose $437 million? If it hasn't made profit, it has no savings. Clearly 'someone' is giving Amazon credit. I assume its the investors. But in what form does Amazon borrow money? Does Amazon issue bonds and raise money? Does it issue more shares/stock? In short, how is Amazon getting so much money and loosing it in each quarter.

Any links to read will also be helpful.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more digital content consumption is happening on mobile devices. And Amazon can't sell on iOS devices because Apple locks out anyone who won't pay a 30% ransom. You can't buy a book or rent an instant movie on an iPhone. It is a big weak spot.

"ransom"? Funny, you can't rent a movie from Google on Amazon.com either. Or buy a Taco Bell burrito from McDonalds.

My iphone isn't apple.com. It is mine. I'm not asking apple to make sure I can get amazon products. I'm asking them not to go out of their way to make sure I can't.

Imagine if Microsoft would only allow software on windows that it approved and got 30% ransom.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#179
post #177

"In October, Amazon shocked shareholders when it reported a $437 million net loss for the quarter, its biggest in 14 years." Please pardon my ignorance on Accounting. I don't have basic Accounting 101 knowledge, but please help me understand this. If I, as an individual, loose certain amount of money, it is most likely from my savings. Otherwise, it must be on my credit card, which means, I lost the bank's money. Eve…

When people say Amazon is not profitable, they mean "not very profitable". With their enormous revenue, they still generate enough money to maintain a pile of billions of dollars:

http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/cash_on_hand

(found by googling for "amazon cash on hand")

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#180
post #110

This article really reminded me how much Apple screwed up to let Android get a foothold. Look how unassailable the Apple and Android are now -- you can't get a foothold at the bottom of the market because it's hugely fragmented and there are no profit margins, while at the top of the market you're taking on beloved brands and have to try crazy over-the-top bets to get in the door -- which usually backfire. Android co…

Apple didn't screw up. The disadvantages you cite are inevitable consequences of the strategy they consciously chose (selling premium devices differentiated by user experience). If Apple hadn't waited until carriers (especially Verizon) to come to them, iPhones would be as full of branding and bloatware as any other carrier-sold phone, not to mention interference with updates, interference with retail launches and wh…

They certainly chose their strategy consciously -- it was just a bad strategy, relative to the counterfactual.

Apple was wise to launch on just AT&T, you're right that it did in fact let them create the (clearly very popular) experience that it did. But once the iPhone was a mega-hit, they went 4 years before getting Verizon in on the game. That was a huge mistake, and Apple clearly had the power to negotiate a pure iPhone experience with Verizon and get out of its exclusivity contract with AT&T far before 2011.

Certainly getting onto LTE early and increasing screen size earlier than they did would have provoked little missed steps in their UI and general experience -- and once Android was an entrenched competitor, perhaps that was exactly the right decision, since purity of user experience is a core part of the iOS versus Android value prop. But back when the Android user experience was just purely awful, it's pretty hard to argue that the iPhone would have been materially hurt by a few little grinding points. The Motorola DROID wasn't released until Nov 2009, and I had one of those -- it was clearly far, far behind the iPhone of the time in terms of UI.

If Apple had followed the path I described, the iPhone might well be materially worse now than it actually is -- but it would also have 80%+ market share with no serious competitor, rather than 21% market share.

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