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The Fire phone debacle

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Re: The Fire phone debacle

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No power switch (even soft)? Really?

I think he was speaking to turning the features on and off, not the phone. At least, that's how I read it.

Yes, I was kind of imagining pointing to something on the phone when I wrote that, which of course did not come through in the comment...

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#42
Amazon seems to have truly become the Walmart of e-commerce, and I'm not just talking about what the company does (commerce), but rather what the brand represents.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Walmart and Amazon have proven that if you dominate the supply chain landscape and offer a huge variety with low margins, you can do moderately well (i.e. stay in business). But with so much being essentially commodity goods and services (physical and digital), you really can't expect higher margins. So Amazon lives on, even after 20 years in the business.

But with that much history and branding (intentional and unintentional), you really can't expect to create demand for your own premium products - competing with companies that have spent the same amount of time (decades) marketing themselves as design-driven, high quality, premium brands.

It appears that Amazon expects to pull a complete 180 with their brand overnight, as if a product itself (if it's "cool enough") can negate and rise above 20 years of commodity reseller branding.

Sounds a bit like the lone hacker who expects their next mobile app to explode with popularity just because it exists and might have a small edge on the competition. Except in this case, Fire Phone didn't even have an edge. Still, I'm convinced that even if it had been better than the iPhone (or whichever best Android phone) in almost every way, it still would have been doomed for failure.

No one brags about getting the Walmart version of something. The same could be said for Amazon.

I do respect the company's efforts to take "bold" risks. I also really want Amazon to succeed - I'm a very happy Prime and AWS customer, and I think their hardware is actually pretty good. I just wonder if the big bets would be better placed on products and services that better align with the brand they've created already.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#43
post #38

With apple charging 30% of revenue [1] for in app purchases I'm sure that Bezos and others will continue to be concerned about the platform as well as the content. Might be a better strategy to partner with android than start a new ecosystem but I'm sure they want to have more control over the platform. [1] http://www.macstories.net/stories/a-discussion-about-apples-...

Google[1] and Amazon[2] also charge 30%... [1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... >You receive 70% of the payment [2] http://gameservices.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/inapp... >developers earn 70 percent

Google gives the app developer to use other in-app payments means, to save the fee.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#44
post #10

Bold or irresponsible move? Not sure. Given the incredibly low profit margin of most non-iphone smartphones on the market today (I think the average samsung profit margin on a phone is $11) I can't help but wonder what the real source of revenue was planned to be. Increased shopping through mobile? Make your android/ios products better? It just never made any sense, but I guess many successful products don't make ini…

More and more digital content consumption is happening on mobile devices. And Amazon can't sell on iOS devices because Apple locks out anyone who won't pay a 30% ransom. You can't buy a book or rent an instant movie on an iPhone. It is a big weak spot.

Can't do them in an app. Both of those things are possible in a web browser on an iPhone.

I can even watch the movie in the Amazon Instant Video app, but I'm not sure I could stand a whole movie on such a tiny screen.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#45

When I attended the launch, they had a hands-on period where I noticed a few of the issues people have pointed out in reviews. But every phone has issues. More worryingly, I asked about a few things that the unique tech in the Fire Phone could be used for - nothing groundbreaking, just little suggestions: "It'd be great to have the tilt controls do ____ here" or "Do you have plans to allow users to turn this on/off?"…

My guess would be that the person you were talking to didn't know the backstory of a particular issue, or didn't want to bring it up. I have seen people demo products I have worked on field a comment like: "Why didn't you do X?" The person demoing may know why we didn't do that (cost/ time/ tradeoff) or know that it is a 1.1 feature.

It's easier to just say, "That's a good idea."

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#46
It was a huge flop, but I wonder how much of a problem that really is for Amazon. They'll keep trying until they hit something that works for them. And they don't make their revenue from devices - a phone flopping would be an unmitigated disaster for Apple. For Amazon I'm not sure why it's anything more than a slight embarrassment. (Well, I guess a series of flops could damage their brand to the point that future efforts are doomed simply by association. That would be bad.)

The article seems to be making the point that this is an indicator of something wrong at Amazon but I am extremely skeptical of that. I think they just try stuff and see what works.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#47
My feeling on the Fire phone was just that they build the wrong phone for their audience. They built the Moto X when they should have built the Moto G.

There is a market for a really solid Android phone for say $150 off contract. Amazon could have partnered with any number of prepaid providers and also normal providers to have "the best deal in wireless".

They built a whole market around driving down prices and reaching a mass audience, then they compete with top end phones. If the Kindle Fire was $500, it would have flopped. The $600 Fire Phone DID flop.

It feels like Kindle tech's value proposition is quality technology at an unbeatable price. The Fire Phone didn't hit that at all.

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#49
post #10

Bold or irresponsible move? Not sure. Given the incredibly low profit margin of most non-iphone smartphones on the market today (I think the average samsung profit margin on a phone is $11) I can't help but wonder what the real source of revenue was planned to be. Increased shopping through mobile? Make your android/ios products better? It just never made any sense, but I guess many successful products don't make ini…

Not paying Apple or Google a cut of every product sold via mobile was the revenue plan. If I pay Apple 30% of my profits every time someone orders something via my mobile app, that's a lot of money I can sink into a competing product before it becomes a net loss (assuming I get any traction at all).

Re: The Fire phone debacle

#50

When I attended the launch, they had a hands-on period where I noticed a few of the issues people have pointed out in reviews. But every phone has issues. More worryingly, I asked about a few things that the unique tech in the Fire Phone could be used for - nothing groundbreaking, just little suggestions: "It'd be great to have the tilt controls do ____ here" or "Do you have plans to allow users to turn this on/off?"…

One big problem I've seen at Amazon is that their tendency towards independent interacting subsystems carries over onto their culture with regards to their hardware.

One team was probably in charge of the camera/3d bit, and they worked on their own while everybody else made their generic implementations of required smartphone features ABC.

I see this all the time, features are planned and implemented without even communicating the fact to another team, when even the briefest pause would have led to the realization that it had enormous implications for them.

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