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Diversity of the Mind

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21–30 of 35 posts

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#21
post #16

Is this really presenting a fair picture? Really, if I had two candidates who were identical and the only differentiating factor I had was that one liked Candy Crush and the other one played Age of Empires, I don't think I'd take it to a coinflip. I like Age of Empires more than I like Candy Crush. I suppose this is the same type of insidious discrimination that happens because, for instance, people feel like a woman…

Below is an excerpt from an interview on James Miller's fight for tenure at Smith College and an excerpt from the paper discussed. Note that Dr. Miller is an economist and as such is much closer to the mainstream of his discipline than a hypothetical conservative social psychologist.

If you want another unambiguous case of politically motivated violation of academic freedom look at this case study of Linda S. Gottfredson's experience at the University of Delaware. She had to fight for six years. She's a psychologist in a field that's less homogeneous than social psychology.

Lessons in academic freedom as lived experience Linda S. Gottfredson * School of Education, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716, USA http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2009academicfr...

Conservative Professor Fights Smith's Tenure Decision · 31 May 2003

O'REILLY: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight, James Miller, who teaches economics at Smith College in Massachusetts, was up for tenure this year, but he didn't get it.

Miller says the reason is he's a conservative Republican. And the college grievance committee agrees he wasn't treated fairly, saying "the rationale for their votes included consideration of matters that infringed on the candidate's right to academic freedom."

Joining us now from Boston is Professor Miller, who is the author of the book, "Game Theory at Work." All right, so you succeeded in convincing the hierarchy at Smith College that you were, indeed, denied tenure because of your political beliefs, which is supposed to be against every academic tenet in this country. But I find it hard to believe that a college as prestigious as Smith, they would punish you because you were a conservative. Am I naive?

JAMES MILLER, SMITH COLLEGE ASST. PROF.: Well, I think the problem is that there are so few conservatives and Republicans at most American colleges, including Smith, that when, you know, they read something written by a conservative, it just seems crazy to them. So I don't think the people who are punishing me for being a conservative thought they were violating my academic freedom. They thought they were keeping out someone who has this utterly crazy beliefs from teaching and corrupting their students.

In the social sciences and humanities, however, there is a stronger imbalance. For instance, recent surveys find that 58 - 66 percent of social science professors in the United States identify as liberals, while only 5 - 8 percent identify as conservatives, and that self-identified Democrats outnumber Republicans by ratios of at least 8 to 1 (Gross & Simmons, 2007; Klein & Stern, 2009; Rothman & Lichter, 2008). A similar situation is found in the humanities where surveys find that 52 - 77 percent of humanities professors identify as liberals, while only 4 - 8 percent identify as conservatives, and that self-identified Democrats outnumber Republicans by ratios of at least 5:1 (Gross & Simmons, 2007; Rothman & Lichter, 2008). In psychology the imbalance is slightly stronger: 84 percent identify as liberal while only 8 percent identify as conservative (Gross & Simmons, 2007; Rothman & Lichter, 2008). That is a ratio of 10.5 to 1. In the United States as a whole, the ratio of liberals to conservatives is roughly 1 to 2 (Gallup, 2010).

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being discriminatory in a sense, but then being discriminatory is normal. It's just what people do, and the large-scale consequences can be trivial or important depending on any number of things. Whether or not it's worth intervening through policy (or simply through culture or collective intent) varies case by case, but I think there's a case to be made here.

But why? What tangible impact has it had on conservatives?

I don't care about the harm done to conservatives, I care about the harm done to liberals. Of course people like to hang out with people who see things their way, and there's nothing wrong with that, but when everyone agrees, the culture turns into a circlejerk prone to groupthink and lower standards of reasoning. When people have to answer to those with different opinions, backgrounds, perspectives, and allegiances, they're forced to develop their viewpoints in a much more robust way.

This is just common sense, but studies seem to back it up (as the blog post goes into).

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#23
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the cultural turn of the 1970s, liberals have focused on cultural change as a way of achieving justice. They assumed that people conform to dominant social norms which they learn about through the media and through others in society. So the operating hypothesis is that, if you create the impression that (for example) racial equality is the dominant social norm through consistent and uniform expression of those…

The group that you call "liberals" is spread out across the political spectrum, from the center to the far left. Some are authoritarian, others are libertarian and even anarchist. They do not present any unified front; in fact, there's so much disagreement among "liberals" that they would never consider themselves to be a single group unless forced to choose among a very small set of labels. I agree with the authors…

But liberals' political views aren't relevant here. What matters for Haidt is that irrespective of their true politics, people who identify as liberal tend to be hostile to 3 of the moral foundations.

I'm not saying his approach is right, just that his ultimate goal is not political diversity as such. I agree that there are other approaches to correcting bias, and the fact that he doesn't even consider those makes me think something else is going on. Liberals tend to believe that morality is a product of reason. Haidt thinks it comes from innate dispositions or intuitions, which I think is closer to a conservative viewpoint.

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being discriminatory in a sense, but then being discriminatory is normal. It's just what people do, and the large-scale consequences can be trivial or important depending on any number of things. Whether or not it's worth intervening through policy (or simply through culture or collective intent) varies case by case, but I think there's a case to be made here.

But why? What tangible impact has it had on conservatives?

The issue is that theories start with liberal values and assumptions and conservative ideas aren't fairly evaluated.

This creates blind spots in the field. There are examples in the draft paper.

Moreover it taints policy recommendations and causes Republicans to distrust calls for "evidence based policy".

Read the draft paper linked in the article. [http://journals.cambridge.org/images/fileUpload/documents/Du...]

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#25
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The group that you call "liberals" is spread out across the political spectrum, from the center to the far left. Some are authoritarian, others are libertarian and even anarchist. They do not present any unified front; in fact, there's so much disagreement among "liberals" that they would never consider themselves to be a single group unless forced to choose among a very small set of labels. I agree with the authors…

But liberals' political views aren't relevant here. What matters for Haidt is that irrespective of their true politics, people who identify as liberal tend to be hostile to 3 of the moral foundations. I'm not saying his approach is right, just that his ultimate goal is not political diversity as such. I agree that there are other approaches to correcting bias, and the fact that he doesn't even consider those makes me…

> But liberals' political views aren't relevant here.

How does one justify a sweeping generalization about some group of people while totally ignoring diversity within that group? "I don't care what they truly believe, but methinks they believe that three of my six (not five) moral foundations are unimportant." doesn't sound particularly convincing.

> I'm not saying his approach is right, just that his ultimate goal is not political diversity as such.

That's exactly what I was trying to point out in the GGGP comment. This is little more than a conservative political agenda wrapped in the language of diversity. Yes, some people emphasize some of the "foundations" more than others. But unless Haidt can convince us that we ought to take all of them seriously, his views are utterly uninteresting in the context of ethics.

When religious people demand that creationism be taught at school "for balance", most HNers can easily see through their thinly veiled political agenda. But when a conservative and/or libertarian guy makes an argument that has an identical logical structure, anyone who dares to disagree gets downvoted into oblivion. Funny, but I guess that's exactly how political biases work IRL.

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#26
post #9

For purposes of understanding this article, does anyone know anything about the author, Bryan Caplan? The website is the Library of Economics and Liberty and is funded by The Liberty Fund,[1]. In my brief review they appear to advocate for modern libertarian ideology. Does anyone know more about them? At least, this seems to be political advocacy and not scholarly analysis. (I'm not criticizing it; just trying to und…

The Liberty Fund doesn't engage in political advocacy. They primarily (re)publish literature important to classical liberalism and the moral case for liberty (and history and law, etc). They also put on occasional conferences, and they maintain online libraries.

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#27
post #9

For purposes of understanding this article, does anyone know anything about the author, Bryan Caplan? The website is the Library of Economics and Liberty and is funded by The Liberty Fund,[1]. In my brief review they appear to advocate for modern libertarian ideology. Does anyone know more about them? At least, this seems to be political advocacy and not scholarly analysis. (I'm not criticizing it; just trying to und…

The Liberty Fund doesn't engage in political advocacy. They primarily (re)publish literature important to classical liberalism and the moral case for liberty (and history and law, etc). They also put on occasional conferences, and they maintain online libraries.

How is that not political advocacy?

If a Socialist site 'republished literature important to classical Socialism and the moral case for social equality' would you not consider it a political entity?

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#28
post #24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? What tangible impact has it had on conservatives?

The issue is that theories start with liberal values and assumptions and conservative ideas aren't fairly evaluated. This creates blind spots in the field. There are examples in the draft paper. Moreover it taints policy recommendations and causes Republicans to distrust calls for "evidence based policy". Read the draft paper linked in the article. [ http://journals.cambridge.org/images/fileUpload/documents/Du... ]

I think considering the massive policy advantages - if not the total lockdown - given to conservative ideas in government, especially in economics and banking, that's not quite the problem it might seem to be.

The real problem with left-wing academia is that it has been persuaded to believe that ritualised criticisms of conservative public policy are a substitute for political influence. The academic left has almost exactly no political influence at this time.

As for evidence-based policy - when conservatives stop promoting frankly kooky positions like climate change denial or an insistence that raising the minimum wage kills jobs it's going to be easier to accept that conservatives have an interest in evidence-based rational policy.

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that theories start with liberal values and assumptions and conservative ideas aren't fairly evaluated. This creates blind spots in the field. There are examples in the draft paper. Moreover it taints policy recommendations and causes Republicans to distrust calls for "evidence based policy". Read the draft paper linked in the article. [ http://journals.cambridge.org/images/fileUpload/documents/Du... ]

I think considering the massive policy advantages - if not the total lockdown - given to conservative ideas in government, especially in economics and banking, that's not quite the problem it might seem to be. The real problem with left-wing academia is that it has been persuaded to believe that ritualised criticisms of conservative public policy are a substitute for political influence. The academic left has almost…

You can't get a senior job at the DOE without a PhD in Education, and you can't get an PhD Education without publishing a thesis the academic left supports...

At least in education the academic left has had a complete stranglehold on policy for 50+ years.

Saying that conservatives have a total lockdown on policy is just silly.

The deeper problem that Haidt is found is that people on the left can't actually answer a survey as a conservative would. Libertarians and conservatives can answer surveys as a liberal would when asked to, but liberals are too insular and only have a caricature of conservatives in their mind.

Your statement about economics and banking illustrates that. Wall St has power and influence in DC because it has a lot of money, not because it has ideological support from conservatives.

Re: Diversity of the Mind

#30
post #16

Is this really presenting a fair picture? Really, if I had two candidates who were identical and the only differentiating factor I had was that one liked Candy Crush and the other one played Age of Empires, I don't think I'd take it to a coinflip. I like Age of Empires more than I like Candy Crush. I suppose this is the same type of insidious discrimination that happens because, for instance, people feel like a woman…

Below is an excerpt from an interview on James Miller's fight for tenure at Smith College and an excerpt from the paper discussed. Note that Dr. Miller is an economist and as such is much closer to the mainstream of his discipline than a hypothetical conservative social psychologist. If you want another unambiguous case of politically motivated violation of academic freedom look at this case study of Linda S. Gottfre…

Personally, I wouldn't call this an unambiguous case since the dean reached an out-of-court settlement. Have I misunderstood this article? In the opening paragraphs there is unambiguous personal support for the professor in question. Could it be that the content of the research here was more the cause of concern than the political inclination of the researchers?

Most of the numbers you quote are fairly consistent with how postgraduate degree holders vote. In 2012 postgrads were democrat by 13 points and in 2008 by 18. Can we identify what the cause or effect is here?

My question really is what tangible problems do these numbers create for republicans? Are their incomes lower? Are they less socially mobile? Are they murdered more? By what quantifiable metric are they disadvantaged?

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