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Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

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Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#91

Post by tunap »

evpuneq wrote: post #40

This issue also affects users of CyanogenMod 11 which is currently based on Android 4.4.4 ( https://jira.cyanogenmod.org/browse/CYAN-5728 ). The same thing happened to the HTC One M7, but HTC fixed it quickly with an OTA update ( http://venomroms.com/venomhub-fix-no-sound-calls-htc-one-m7 ). All in all it looks like the malfunction is caused by an automatic update of the Google Play Services framework. Not reacting a…

That MAY explain why I don't have these issues on my N4, I de-googled[1] my phone as soon as I got it.

[1]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#92

Post by [deleted] »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #70
edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? I imagine the "shoddy workmanship" has a lot to do with carrier specific settings and vendor specific stuff that is difficult to code for properly…

[deleted]

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#93

Post by noselasd »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #70
edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? I imagine the "shoddy workmanship" has a lot to do with carrier specific settings and vendor specific stuff that is difficult to code for properly…

I'm not sure why you assume a switch to VoIP will help in that regard - in practical terms that means the SIP protocol for the voice (and SMS) signalling. While SIP is going to be the way forward, the specs are really full of ambiguity and not that well though out features. Most commercial vendors of SIP servers include full scripting languages in order for the admins to "normalize" the protocol in order to try to smooth over incompabilities - I can guarantee you that when phones are released in the wild with a SIP stack the telco hasn't tested, things will stop working until they've implemented workarounds for the SIP flavor of the day.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#94

Post by edent »

magicalist wrote: post #79
edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

Apologies to the sibling posts praising this for a different perspective, but this post goes way too far in the other direction. Yes testing updates is very important. But by "operators delay firmware updates" do you mean never release updates? By "some of them" "stuff the ROM full of bloatware" do you mean nearly all of them? Telcos also love to write and ship their own OS UIs which are themselves full of shoddy wor…

It rather depends where you are in the world. UK operators are fairly good at releasing updates - but a lot depends on how many units the carrier sold.

In the EU there's a trend away from bloatware. But, again, depends on your country / market.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#95

Post by edent »

click170 wrote: post #60
edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

Wow, thanks for that interesting insight into the telco side of firmware upgrade delays. I humbly submit that the carriers could avoid a lot of ill-will if there was more transparency in that process. I hope there aren't contractual obligations in place preventing that because it really changes the way I personally see the problem.

Go to any carrier support forum / Twitter and they're usually pretty open about testing. But, yes, there are always contractual obligations. Not least, Manufacturer X doesn't want Carrier Y saying "Delays are due to..."

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#96

Post by evpuneq »

gcb0 wrote: post #90
evpuneq wrote: post #40

This issue also affects users of CyanogenMod 11 which is currently based on Android 4.4.4 ( https://jira.cyanogenmod.org/browse/CYAN-5728 ). The same thing happened to the HTC One M7, but HTC fixed it quickly with an OTA update ( http://venomroms.com/venomhub-fix-no-sound-calls-htc-one-m7 ). All in all it looks like the malfunction is caused by an automatic update of the Google Play Services framework. Not reacting a…

if it's a bug in a closed source Google service, how HTC released a fix? even if they roll back the service on a new system image it will self update... unless they hacked away and bumped the version...

The services probably just trigger an error deeper in the call stack like in Qualcomm's proprietary binary blobs. Perhaps they received a new version from Qualcomm.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#97

Post by ansible »

joesmo wrote: post #50
ansible wrote: post #13

I've seen this issue too on my Nexus 4. Rebooting fixes the problem, at least temporarily. Since I had just used the OTA updates for stock 5.0 and 5.0.1, another redditor suggested that I do a factory wipe. I haven't seen the problem recur yet, but it has only been a couple days. Because of this and other problems (random crashes), if I see any issue again, then I'll downgrade to 4.4.4. My typical uptime for that rel…

The same issue occurs on 4.4.4 (and other versions), so it's not specific to 5.0.1.

The same issue occurs on 4.4.4 (and other versions), so it's not specific to 5.0.1.

Well... I'd never seen it happen at all in the previous releases. And with 5.0.1, I saw it happen twice in three days.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#99

Post by ansible »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #70
edent wrote: post #39

I work for a telco (I don't speak for them, usual disclaimers apply). Everyone gets really ranty when operators delay firmware updates. Yeah, some of them delay to force you to buy a new phone, or to stuff the ROM full of bloatware. Most, however, do extensive testing to make sure that customers don't ring up call centres making angry complaints. Carriers (by and large) test the phone to make sure that the network po…

The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? I imagine the "shoddy workmanship" has a lot to do with carrier specific settings and vendor specific stuff that is difficult to code for properly…

Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them?

They had a chance to do that with LTE. But the entrenched players decided instead to greatly increase the size of the specification (and the over-the-air protocol) to specially support voice (VoLTE).

Granted, handoffs from 2G to 3G to 4G are quite complicated, and then throw in roaming on top of that and it gets really complicated.

However, if I had a magic wand or time travel device, I'd rather have seen LTE be data only (with good quality of service support) and IPv6 only. That would have made the protocol vastly simpler, and then it would be possible to un-bundle voice altogether... eventually.

I don't know that such a design would be in the carrier's best interests though, so who's to say it could ever have happened, even with magic.

Re: Google broke telephony for many Nexus users

#100

Post by danielvinson »

gcb0 wrote: post #84
danielvinson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Google in support. You were not talking to a random engineer - the support people are all dedicated support contractors. Most of the teams are all non-technical and the only thing they know about how the product works is from a two week training where most of the time is spent on learning how to avoid lawsuits.

support people at Google is there only to fill regulation minimums.

The teams I was a part of most definitely were not just for minimums (Chromebook/Glass). Google has incredible support for their hardware products.
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