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Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#31

Post by shock-value »

moe wrote: post #23
shock-value wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that most people are never going to adopt Bitcoin if they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds. And given that there are many examples of incompetence and/or fraud within exchanges and other nascent businesses that intend to handle elements of that security on behalf of customers, and no enforced regulations such as you find in the traditional banking sector, you can imagine…

The point is that most people are never going to adopt Bitcoin if they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds And most people are never going to buy physical gold because they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds. Know what? Bitcoin/Gold is not for these people respectively, and nobody ever claimed otherwise.

> Know what? Bitcoin/Gold is not for these people respectively, and nobody ever claimed otherwise.

Well, I can assure you that in threads and forums other than this one that plenty of people have claimed Bitcoin is destined to replace traditional currencies worldwide. Though I do recognize that you made no such assertion here.

> And most people are never going to buy physical gold because they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds.

Plenty of people do trade/invest in gold through avenues other than direct physical ownership (ETFs, etc). At the moment it definitely at least "feels like" it's impossible to do that with respect to Bitcoin due to the security issues and general shadiness that seem to plague many Bitcoin-related companies. The supposed Bitcoin ETF that is forever just-around-the-corner could alleviate some of the concerns with respect to accounting issues and negating the "take-the-money-and-run" factor, but I'm not sure there would be reason to trust them to any greater degree with respect to cryptographic security of their holdings of any virtual currency.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#32

Post by baconmania »

moe wrote: post #23
shock-value wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that most people are never going to adopt Bitcoin if they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds. And given that there are many examples of incompetence and/or fraud within exchanges and other nascent businesses that intend to handle elements of that security on behalf of customers, and no enforced regulations such as you find in the traditional banking sector, you can imagine…

The point is that most people are never going to adopt Bitcoin if they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds And most people are never going to buy physical gold because they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds. Know what? Bitcoin/Gold is not for these people respectively, and nobody ever claimed otherwise.

Except people who buy physical gold don't have to worry about "the technical side of securing their own funds" because they can put their gold in a safe deposit box... at a bank.

The safety of your Bitcoin, on the other hand, depends on some level on your own technical expertise. As long as this is the case, owning Bitcoin will never be as safe as owning gold.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#33

Post by TylerE »

mrb wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #4

This is strange. There's still nothing about this on their web site. It's very suspicious when a Bitcoin exchange claims problems on the deposit side and stops processing withdrawals . Nobody trusts a Bitcoin exchange in trouble, with good reason given the history. On the other hand, it's 6:30 AM in London, where Bitstamp is, and their staff is probably not in yet. Bitstamp is still processing trades; they haven't sh…

"Coinbase, which sells on Bitstamp" Not exclusively. Coinbase also sells (and buys) bitcoins directly to consumers. In fact, Coinbase is probably the biggest seller of bitcoins in the US (or second biggest after Circle.com - none of these companies publish volume numbers due to competitive reasons). "Something is going on." What is going on is very simple: customers of Bitstamp see that bitcoin withdrawals are halted…

The crash was 12 hrs before anything happened at Bitstamp.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#34

Post by bdcravens »

qnr wrote: post #20
bdcravens wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Bitcoin users struggle with the basic concept of Bitcoin then. While you can "be your own bank", most coins (no reference, just surmising) are in exchanges rather than wallets owned by the end user. So despite the marketing copy, there's a ton of Bitcoin stored in what are essentially "banks".

> most coins (no reference, just surmising) are in exchanges rather than wallets owned by the end user. Are you saying there are 7+ million BTC stored on exchanges? I disagree based on two data points: Bistamp's reserves were 180K in November 2013 and MtGox's were 850K (with 650K of them missing) at the time of its death. Even if you add BTC-E, Chinese exchanges, Coinbase and LocalBitcoins, it most likely won't excee…

Honestly, I don't know. I'm thinking mostly of "active" coins, not those that haven't moved in years. I personally think that Satoshi's coins will never move.

So even if it's a minority at 20%, that's a pretty substantial number, and I can't imagine why it won't grow. Bitcoin's success depends on mass adoption, and I can't imagine a scenario where Jane Public would rather learn the technical skills to secure a local wallet versus trusting a company like Coinbase or Circle.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#35

Post by moe »

shock-value wrote: post #31
moe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that most people are never going to adopt Bitcoin if they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds And most people are never going to buy physical gold because they have to worry about the technical side of securing their own funds. Know what? Bitcoin/Gold is not for these people respectively, and nobody ever claimed otherwise.

> Know what? Bitcoin/Gold is not for these people respectively, and nobody ever claimed otherwise. Well, I can assure you that in threads and forums other than this one that plenty of people have claimed Bitcoin is destined to replace traditional currencies worldwide. Though I do recognize that you made no such assertion here. > And most people are never going to buy physical gold because they have to worry about the…

At the moment it definitely at least "feels like" it's impossible to do that with respect to Bitcoin due to...

Yes, and it also "feels like" it's impossible to use a chainsaw as a toothpick.

Maybe you should just refrain from doing that then?

Only because Bitcoin is a currency doesn't mean it will replace all existing currencies next year, be an amazing investment vehicle or fulfill any other of the wet dreams that people may have about it.

Like everything it is better for some purposes and worse for others. Stop blaming the chainsaw for not being a toothpick.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#36

Post by bdcravens »

freework wrote: post #16
bdcravens wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Bitcoin users struggle with the basic concept of Bitcoin then. While you can "be your own bank", most coins (no reference, just surmising) are in exchanges rather than wallets owned by the end user. So despite the marketing copy, there's a ton of Bitcoin stored in what are essentially "banks".

Can be your own bank, not "is and always be completely devoid of any kind of banking institute" America is a free country, but not everyone in America is free (some are in prison, for instance).

Absolutely. I was addressing the idea that Bitcoin is automatically decentralized, which is very much untrue for a significant number (though perhaps I was incorrect in saying "most" - I don't have those numbers, but neither does anyone else it would seem)

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#37

Post by smtddr »

TylerE wrote: post #33
mrb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coinbase, which sells on Bitstamp" Not exclusively. Coinbase also sells (and buys) bitcoins directly to consumers. In fact, Coinbase is probably the biggest seller of bitcoins in the US (or second biggest after Circle.com - none of these companies publish volume numbers due to competitive reasons). "Something is going on." What is going on is very simple: customers of Bitstamp see that bitcoin withdrawals are halted…

The crash was 12 hrs before anything happened at Bitstamp.

12 hrs before __you__ knew anything happened at Bitstamp.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#38

Post by Animats »

swinglock wrote: post #29
Animats wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitstamp has a blog, a web site, a Facebook page, and a Twitter feed. None of these have any mention of problems. There's a report on Reddit that withdrawals stopped 16 hours ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rayix/bitstamp_bit... Yet no official comments from Bitstamp. Just a strange email, possibly forged. That's a very bad sign. "It is indeed strange...and strangely familiar." Right. This is a pattern…

When logged in on the balance page it says: "DO NOT DEPOSIT TO PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED BITCOIN DEPOSIT ADDRESSES. Deposits sent to previous address will not be honored. New deposit addresses are forthcoming.".

Well, at least they're doing that. But there's still no explanation on their site, blog, Twitter, or Facebook, and it's after 8 AM on Monday in London.

Expect this to start hitting the financial press in London in the next hour or two.

Re: Bitstamp Accounts Frozen

#39

Post by moe »

bdcravens wrote: post #27
moe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most coins (no reference, just surmising) are in exchanges rather than wallets owned by the end user. Wrong. And this is why these Bitcoin debates are so annoying and repetitive. For some reason everyone feels entitled to their little doomsday speech without bothering to research even their most basic premises.

There's a difference between making an educated guess and "have no clue what you are talking about". I first mined in 2011, and have purchased through numerous exchanges since then. An increasing number of users aren't geeks who give a damn about crypto: they want to get into Bitcoin with the easiest on-ramp. edit: Did you totally change your reply? From the time I started my comment to hitting submit, your comment c…

There's a difference between making an educated guess and "have no clue what you are talking about"

...

See the comment by qnr.

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