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Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

alexrad.me

111–120 of 159 posts

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#111
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that file: pci_or_config32(PCI_DEV_HSW, 0xb0, 1 What is "BDSM"? It almost seems like a strangely appropriate name for another DRM feature. It's actually somewhat hidden in our haswell driver because so much is now binary-only on Intel platforms. One thing that I've noticed browsing around Coreboot sources is that the source code is rather opaque - full of "magic constants" with little to no meaning. It may be "o…

When all you do is to write a single opaque value in a register, and never use those bits again, it's slightly excessive to give each of them a name. This also reflects in chipset documentation, which sometimes comes with pages and pages of "write X to register Y", and not much more. The value is that the higher level structure is more easily visible when you know what is code and what is data (which is the main issu…

This also reflects in chipset documentation, which sometimes comes with pages and pages of "write X to register Y", and not much more.

It almost feels like they're trying to hide something if they don't give any reasoning for what those values do... and so I'm rather curious as to what happens if they're changed. Some bits might have no effect, some could have catastrophic effects (e.g. if they control some of the voltage regulation circuitry), and some could have very useful effects that they just don't want you to know about. Intel CPUs have had undocumented features since their introduction; it's not hard to imagine their chipsets do too.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#112
post #73

This is what I call bullshit job - zero value for humankind created, tons of human hours wasted. (I would even say negative value since security holes will be found if not already in this microcontroller firmware)

I stumbled upon this PAVP thing in an old Thinkpad just last week. My first thought after reading about it was basically this. Somewhere, some very talented software developers probably spent years working on this obscure, essentially useless thing.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#113
post #90
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Intel chips since 2010 or so have the management engine. There's a reason why the "reclaim your freedom" notebook is still a Lenovo X60. Some of them come with larger firmware (5MB, making up vPro and AMT), others with the smaller one (1.5MB) that merely does the DRM stuff, but all of them have the full hardware access detailled in the article. AMD is clean on the chipset side until kaveri/kabini. After that, the…

Do you have an opinion on this project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-laptop ? It's a laptop designed to be free software and it's using coreboot.

It's a noble goal, but they're using Intel hardware. They also don't claim to be free software down to the firmware.

But assuming that's their goal:

They say they talked with Intel about opening up things, but they're far from the first one to try (and not the most powerful ones either, be it by $$$ or influence, unless there's some background story they keep to themselves).

My guess is that they intend well, talked to some sales folks, those promised the moon (and more, if necessary), and when things get serious, the sales persons will be nowhere to be found, while purism is too far down the road to start from scratch.

In the end, purism has to compromise while Intel can celebrate another design win.

So the end result will be that they use the smaller ME firmware (1.5MB is still a lot of unexplained cruft), the FSP binary (www.intel.com/fsp) and coreboot to glue things together - just like every other coreboot-using Intel based design does right now (there are a couple).

The main difference to everybody else will be that purism builds neither embedded electronics that do things no consumer has ever heard of, nor chromebooks.

That in itself is already a nice thing from a coreboot perspective, in that it provides exposure to the project and the issue, but I fear some purism backers will feel let down by such an outcome.

http://puri.sm/posts/purism-software-freedom-deconstructed/ looks like they try to indicate that "this BIOS code isn't all that much". No, it isn't - but it's exactly the part of the code that sets the rules under which the entire system later operates. In this, it's more important than the plain old (say) gimp binary in that huge top bucket, which has not much of an effect on the security or autonomy of the system or user.

I'd love to be wrong here, since either way I 'win' (actually the more I'm wrong, the more I win :) ). I just think it's unlikely given that I'm involved in that mess for the better part of a decade by now, while the purism folks seem to be newcomers with a lot of idealism but few experience with dealing with Intel and their unusual definition of software freedom.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#114

I only hope is that as bullshit like this becomes more and more prominent, people will become more and more educated in what is acceptable and what is not (since it will bite them more and more). Eventually, public opinion would shift into more and more negative outlook on corporations who practice such things. Offenders' influence would then decline and people will become smarter, everyone wins.

and people will become smarter

Unfortunately, my impression is the opposite - people are slowly being dissuaded from discovering these restrictions by the promises of convenience, and when they do run into them, they're faced with heavy rhetoric to the effect of "it's for your security" so they (reluctantly) accept it. Incidents like this appear isolated and are downplayed by the majority, who will continue to use the very services that restrict them, purely out of convenience.

Corporations are diverting people's actions of sharing information into their own channels so they can exert more control over them - witness all the "share on Twitter/Facebook/etc" buttons appearing everywhere (I personally block them, but I know they exist); they sure are convenient to use, and as a side-effect of their use, it reduces the amount of people who will "manually" and directly share with others (and thus know more about the transfer of information themselves.)

The same is happening with other types of media too, as evidenced by all the efforts to hide the filesystem of devices from users, since one of the most open ways to share data with someone is to give them a copy of a file. They are even trying to discourage linking to a resource, with browser vendors thinking of hiding URLs or parts of them. Ultimately, they are pushing for a world in which no one owns their (tightly locked-down) computing devices or has any knowledge of how they work (except for a few "specialists"), and all communication between individuals happens via some corporate intermediary. This makes it easier to censor and manipulate the users (probably to squeeze $$$ out of them), which is what the whole idea is about.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#115
post #6

What I don't really understand is how this could be used to stop piracy. Sure, you could stop recording on a machine with Intel Management Engine, but wouldn't pirates simply use a computer without Intel Management Engine to rip media? Unless the media becomes impossible to consume without Intel Management Engine (sounds unlikely, how would you explain that to customers), how does it prevent anything?

The "stopping privacy" argument could be a red herring.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating copyright law. She is legally allowed to take screenshots and clips from copyrighted material. There's nothing in or about copyright law that requires content providers to make this easy.

The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent technological protections in many instances where the result would still be fair use, if it weren't for the technological protections and the DMCA making circumventing them illegal. It's not just that the content providers 'make it hard' -- it's that their attempts to 'make it hard' are protected by law, not just by difficulty. Even if they DRM doesn't actually make it very har…

If you read the section on exemptions, you'll see that there's one for exactly this case: decrypting a dvd for the purpose of criticism.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#117

I only hope is that as bullshit like this becomes more and more prominent, people will become more and more educated in what is acceptable and what is not (since it will bite them more and more). Eventually, public opinion would shift into more and more negative outlook on corporations who practice such things. Offenders' influence would then decline and people will become smarter, everyone wins.

and people will become smarter Unfortunately, my impression is the opposite - people are slowly being dissuaded from discovering these restrictions by the promises of convenience, and when they do run into them, they're faced with heavy rhetoric to the effect of "it's for your security" so they (reluctantly) accept it. Incidents like this appear isolated and are downplayed by the majority, who will continue to use th…

A comment so accurate it makes me sad :C

There isn't much one can do though as favoring convenience over not-so-obvious benefits of (abstract, for them) freedom seems to stem from the very human nature...

I used to think RMS' ideas were a bit far fetched, but with each such revelation that comes to light in the form of post on some relatively unknown blog those ideas seem more and more appropriate.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#118
post #61

This is all ultimately pointless because it's not like the video decoder checks the integrity of its own code or the CPU running it or the compiler that compiled it or that the OS it was tested against is actually running. (Reflections on trusting trust.) Nothing actually cares about secure boot or end-to-end code validation; Apple doesn't even include equipment on their mainboards to do this anymore. Meanwhile, if y…

"Intel's just using Hollywood's fear of piracy" DRM has very little to do with piracy. Hollywood know perfectly well that DRM will not stop a determined pirate and a movie only has to be ripped once to be pirated indefinitely. It's about control. It's about the studios always having a seat at the bargaining table when new products/devices are being floated. They fear becoming a commodity supplier.

> It's about control. It's about the studios always having a seat at the bargaining table when new products/devices are being floated. They fear becoming a commodity supplier.

The only way the studios would become a commodity supplier is if there were numerous other sources of content people would pay money to watch. That's what it means for your product to be a commodity. E.g. consumer PCs are a commodity because if you don't like Dell, you can get an identical product from HP. But with movies, if you want Harry Potter, you have to play ball with Warner Bros., because consumers want that specific movie, not some generic equivalent.

The studios want DRM not because they don't trust consumers, but because they (rightfully) don't trust the tech industry. It doesn't matter that Harry Potter isn't a commodity if you can pirate it without doing business with Warner Brothers. The tech industry sells hardware and software services for consuming content, and it helps its bottom line if piracy is easy and prevalent. See, e.g., Youtube's being built on the back of infringing Viacom's copyrights. DRM gives the studios a toe-hold in the process to deter products that blatantly promote copyright infringement.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#119
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all you do is to write a single opaque value in a register, and never use those bits again, it's slightly excessive to give each of them a name. This also reflects in chipset documentation, which sometimes comes with pages and pages of "write X to register Y", and not much more. The value is that the higher level structure is more easily visible when you know what is code and what is data (which is the main issu…

This also reflects in chipset documentation, which sometimes comes with pages and pages of "write X to register Y", and not much more. It almost feels like they're trying to hide something if they don't give any reasoning for what those values do... and so I'm rather curious as to what happens if they're changed. Some bits might have no effect, some could have catastrophic effects (e.g. if they control some of the vo…

For the most part it's probably that they kept things flexible that aren't strictly necessary, but it simplified their development process of the silicon.

So when they're done with the silicon, and routed all the traces, and so on, they can run their magic tool that measures delays and things like that, and then calculate the best performing set of values, and write them into the document.

It also allows them to dial back some of the values should they figure out that there are problems. I fully expect these numbers to change a couple of times between them finalizing their silicon and releasing it (and the reference code and documentation) to the public. Now consider how much trouble it would be, even for Intel and their world famous fabrication process, to create new silicon for each of those changes.

Take the tables in i945's raminit (http://review.coreboot.org/gitweb?p=coreboot.git;a=blob;f=sr...).

From the shape of these values, they're probably some delay configuration for the different types of DDR2 pins (dq, ctl, clk) going from somewhere inside the silicon out to the pin of the package, but I doubt that the documentation actually provided any explanation for them.

Of course, one of these registers could mean 'change all calculations in a way that the electromagnetic field contains the private key'. But they need a better way to enable that function than in firmware, where it's done for everyone.

In the end, I'm fine with such magic values in magic registers, as long as they make some sense (right register block for the current task instead of messing with the audio codec while initializing usb) and are unconditional (that is, no if (user_is_evil()) write_enable_tempest_register(); ).

If there are no unexplained conditionals, any backdoor would have to apply to every user - in which case they could just enable it unconditionally in silicon.

Re: Why Rosyna Can't Take a Movie Screenshot

#120
post #61

This is all ultimately pointless because it's not like the video decoder checks the integrity of its own code or the CPU running it or the compiler that compiled it or that the OS it was tested against is actually running. (Reflections on trusting trust.) Nothing actually cares about secure boot or end-to-end code validation; Apple doesn't even include equipment on their mainboards to do this anymore. Meanwhile, if y…

"Intel's just using Hollywood's fear of piracy" DRM has very little to do with piracy. Hollywood know perfectly well that DRM will not stop a determined pirate and a movie only has to be ripped once to be pirated indefinitely. It's about control. It's about the studios always having a seat at the bargaining table when new products/devices are being floated. They fear becoming a commodity supplier.

Pirating movies: No hassle with DRM

Buying moving legally: Trouble with DRM (Windows, OS X), often impossible to play on Linux.

Let the customer decide. :-)

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