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What Will the World Speak in 2115?

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Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#31

I don't think the loss of a language without a literature is much of a loss, really. Also Navajo, though grammatically odd to speakers of Indo-European languages, contrary to the article does not seem to only have irregular verbs.

I think that quite contrary - when language without literature is lost then everything about this language - traditions, knowledge, history, is lost forever (unless anthropologists manage to save some bits of it).

[deleted]

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, that would require that your smartphone be sufficiently aware of the context of your words that it could correctly map one ambiguous statement in one language to another in another language with a different set of ambiguities. For example, the German 'ich mag sie' could mean 'I like her' or 'I like them' or 'I like you' in formal settings, while the English 'at least' could be translated to German as 'z…

Not to detract from your point (which is very true; for machine translation to match human translations they need equal access to and understanding of context), but as a native German speaker, your example seems wrong to me :). "It is pleasing to her" = "es gefällt ihr","It is pleasing to them" = "es gefällt ihnen". No doubt it's possible to construct examples that support your agument in just about any language, tho…

true, damn, let me fix that... I was thinking of using sie in the accusative rather than the dative ... hopefully 'ich mag sie' works better, right?

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#34

I really don't like how tones are presented as a confounding item like irregular verbs. Tonal languages essentially just take advantage of extra bandwidth that was ignored by most european languages. They are hard for western learners but only because we are unused to treating tonal information as important. In fact because of tones and limited pronunciations available I have found that I feel Chinese is more toleran…

English does use tones:

"Going to the store" (rising = question)

"Going to the store" (flat or descending = statement)

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#36

I don't think the loss of a language without a literature is much of a loss, really. Also Navajo, though grammatically odd to speakers of Indo-European languages, contrary to the article does not seem to only have irregular verbs.

I think that quite contrary - when language without literature is lost then everything about this language - traditions, knowledge, history, is lost forever (unless anthropologists manage to save some bits of it).

Not nessasarily, the people could continue to pass down the traditions/knowledge/history using another language. If a language with literature is lost, then you loose just as much of those things, as well as the literature (because no one can understand it). Of course, having literature increases the chances of having a rossetta stone.

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#37
From the article: "By the time Esperanto got out of the gate, another language was already emerging as an international medium: English." Yep. Esperanto is toast as a world interlanguage compared to English. The number of new speakers added to English each year just by natural increase of households in which English is spoken as a home language is, matched for levels of proficiency, comfortably greater than the total worldwide number of speakers of Esperanto. (The same is true, of course, of Modern Standard Chinese (Mandarin), Spanish, and Hindustani.) English is by far the language of choice in "interlanguage" contexts, as for example when a native speaker of Korean travels to Taiwan (I have seen this many times) or when a native speaker of Japanese travels to China (I have seen this too) or even when educated native speakers of various Sinitic languages meet up and some are not proficient in standard Mandarin (I have seen this plenty of times too). The use of English as an interlanguage in India alone (where mandating Hindi as the sole interregional language would be very politically contentious) ensures that English will continue to grow and thrive, even if the United States and Britain somehow disappeared from the world. (I have been watching a lot of films from India recently, as my town is blessed with more than one cinema that show current films from India, and even in a movie set in India with entirely Indian characters, you will hear little snatches of English embedded in Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, or Malayalam dialog, and you will always see signs in English in street scenes even of very rural places.)

So, yes, what will the world speak only a century from now, as the article asks? Plenty of other languages, for sure, and I for one am glad I devoted years to learning Chinese and German and other languages, but there will be more and more people speaking English in more and more places as the years go by.

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to detract from your point (which is very true; for machine translation to match human translations they need equal access to and understanding of context), but as a native German speaker, your example seems wrong to me :). "It is pleasing to her" = "es gefällt ihr","It is pleasing to them" = "es gefällt ihnen". No doubt it's possible to construct examples that support your agument in just about any language, tho…

true, damn, let me fix that... I was thinking of using sie in the accusative rather than the dative ... hopefully 'ich mag sie' works better, right?

Yep, 'ich mag sie' could be informally referring to a woman, formally referring to a person of either gender, or just any group.

Machine translation is of course aware of this problem, and doing the (rough) equivalent of "whole program analysis" is an active concern. I.e. you can try to source info elsewhere in a longer input to decide between multiple possible translations for another bit. The problem is really these short inputs where no context is easily available to the program - it's an input problem in some sense; it's just much easier for a human translator to guess from cues the program simply has no input channels for. One of those cues is who exactly they've been hired by, though, and that can be replicated with user profiles, too.

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#39

I don't think the loss of a language without a literature is much of a loss, really. Also Navajo, though grammatically odd to speakers of Indo-European languages, contrary to the article does not seem to only have irregular verbs.

You might enjoy reading this counter-argument: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/opinion/sunday/why-save-a-...

Re: What Will the World Speak in 2115?

#40
post #34

I really don't like how tones are presented as a confounding item like irregular verbs. Tonal languages essentially just take advantage of extra bandwidth that was ignored by most european languages. They are hard for western learners but only because we are unused to treating tonal information as important. In fact because of tones and limited pronunciations available I have found that I feel Chinese is more toleran…

English does use tones: "Going to the store" (rising = question) "Going to the store" (flat or descending = statement)

English has intonation, which is different from the "tones" that tonal languages such as Chinese have. Intonation is the use of pitch to convey additional information regarding emotion or attitude. Tones, on the other hand, are used to differentiate completely different words altogether.

For tonal languages, the use of tone as a distinguishing characteristic is similar to any other phonemic characteristic you would typically have to distinguish words in any other non-tonal language. For instance, in English, voicing is a distinguishing characteristic that differentiates the words "pat" and "bat". Similarly in Mandarin Chinese, tone is a distinguishing characteristic that differentiates the words "mā" (mother) and "mǎ" (horse).

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