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Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

dancounsell.com

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Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#11

Post by milen »

tomkinstinch wrote: post #3

Another point to add is that applications sold outside the App Store can avoid the sandboxing restrictions of the Store, and consequently contain functionality that would be not permitted by Apple on the Store (file access, deeper system access, etc.). That said, for my side project ( http://artfulmac.com ) it is absolutely worth it to me as a solo developer to pay Apple their 30% to have them handle fulfillment (inc…

it is absolutely worth it to me as a solo developer to pay Apple their 30% to have them handle fulfillment

I think one aspect that gets easily lost in the debate is the long-term impact of having your app on the MAS (exclusively or not). You need to consider the value of being able to provide trials (i.e., do not force potential customers to spend money upfront on software that might not fulfil their requirements), discounts for your long term repeat customers, the ability to communicate directly with them and resolve their problems.

If you want to run a sustainable business, whether the MAS is a net positive becomes a question mark. I have not seen much supporting data to suggest that the MAS is a net positive if we compare exclusive direct vs exclusive MAS over a long period of time.

Anecdotally, from the data I have on hand (conversations with customers and friends), almost no one discovered their Mac apps from the MAS (there's some bias in my sample, of course). If they needed the software, they would have bought it - whether it's outside or not doesn't matter. If you need a tool for your job (the type of software I'm interesting in making), you're not going pass on it just cause you have to enter your credit card. For other types of software, the more disposable ones, convenience plays a much bigger role.

And most importantly of all, it will all depend on the particular type of software that you're selling. In my experience, the MAS works great for type of software that's mostly consumable - cheap, disposable, no long term plan to keep it updated. For other types, where you plan to run a sustainable business over many years - I'm not convinced.

While you'll probably do less units selling directly, you'll be getting a significantly higher proportion of the sale price. It's important to consider all aspects, not just raw revenue over a short period of time and make a decision from there - for some apps, the MAS would be the right way, for others - not so much. Now, deciding which way to go is a much, much harder question and I'm afraid there's no easy way to come up with a definitive answer.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#12

Post by eps »

sosborn wrote: post #4
nathanbarry wrote: post #2

Really solid article. I love that it includes actual numbers. "Apple has taken $600,000 (USD) of that in fees. Ouch!" is much more concrete than just "30% of revenue."

> taken Well, there are providing a service in return for those fees as well as high-visibility amongst potential customers. Striking out on your own means a lot of work in getting people to your website.

30% is an insane commission. Absolutely mind-boggingly brutal. The kind of commission that should guarantee that your product is featured on Apple's home page in large bold, possibly flashing, letters well above their own products. If it's not, then it's not "high-visibility" and 30% is just a blatant rip-off.

# A message from your local software retailer who's doing really well by selling directly.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#13

Post by sleepyhead »

pavlov wrote: post #7
sleepyhead wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ghetto huh? Many apps I bought are on the App Store (many can be bought outside the app store too so I bought them directly though). I'm not sure how well MAS is doing but a ghetto it is not. Target market? Well lets try the average user who is much better off with buying from Apple who already has their credit card than going through some little website and their pain in the ass credit card form, registration and…

So the Mac App Store is highly convenient, yet you always choose to buy outside the App Store when possible? That's not the greatest endorsement ever.

That's my preference. You didn't understand what the target market is. I tried to explain it to you but obviously didn't understand it.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#14

Post by pavlov »

sleepyhead wrote: post #13
pavlov wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the Mac App Store is highly convenient, yet you always choose to buy outside the App Store when possible? That's not the greatest endorsement ever.

That's my preference. You didn't understand what the target market is. I tried to explain it to you but obviously didn't understand it.

There's no such target market as "the average user". That's usually a condescending fiction used by techies. The line of thought is something like:

"Of course I do interesting stuff on my computer, but the average person doesn't. All they need is X."

Importantly, X is never defined by asking actual users, but is simply a distillation of prejudice about the needs of "the common people".

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#15

Post by lnanek2 »

I think it is misleading to have a big picture of an iPhone at the top, and talk extensively about selling outside the app store, when that isn't a realistic option for iOS smartphone developers. You are forced to use the App Store for iPhone since the number of jail broken devices that can install other apps is too low. The author must be talking about Mac laptop/desktop apps.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#16

Post by [deleted] »

pavlov wrote: post #14
sleepyhead wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my preference. You didn't understand what the target market is. I tried to explain it to you but obviously didn't understand it.

There's no such target market as "the average user". That's usually a condescending fiction used by techies. The line of thought is something like: "Of course I do interesting stuff on my computer, but the average person doesn't. All they need is X." Importantly, X is never defined by asking actual users, but is simply a distillation of prejudice about the needs of "the common people".

[deleted]

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#17

Post by detaro »

eps wrote: post #12
sosborn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taken Well, there are providing a service in return for those fees as well as high-visibility amongst potential customers. Striking out on your own means a lot of work in getting people to your website.

30% is an insane commission. Absolutely mind-boggingly brutal. The kind of commission that should guarantee that your product is featured on Apple's home page in large bold, possibly flashing, letters well above their own products. If it's not, then it's not "high-visibility" and 30% is just a blatant rip-off. # A message from your local software retailer who's doing really well by selling directly.

What kind of software do you make/sell?

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#18

Post by JScarry »

eps wrote: post #12
sosborn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taken Well, there are providing a service in return for those fees as well as high-visibility amongst potential customers. Striking out on your own means a lot of work in getting people to your website.

30% is an insane commission. Absolutely mind-boggingly brutal. The kind of commission that should guarantee that your product is featured on Apple's home page in large bold, possibly flashing, letters well above their own products. If it's not, then it's not "high-visibility" and 30% is just a blatant rip-off. # A message from your local software retailer who's doing really well by selling directly.

It’s not too bad considering the alternatives. Not all of my customers are able to download software so I still sell through catalogs. They get a 35-40% discount—which is more than Apple charges. Plus I need to press discs and print manuals.

It would be nice if Apple would fix the search features on the Mac and iOS Apps stores so people can actually find my software.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#19

Post by TillE »

tomkinstinch wrote: post #3

Another point to add is that applications sold outside the App Store can avoid the sandboxing restrictions of the Store, and consequently contain functionality that would be not permitted by Apple on the Store (file access, deeper system access, etc.). That said, for my side project ( http://artfulmac.com ) it is absolutely worth it to me as a solo developer to pay Apple their 30% to have them handle fulfillment (inc…

Taxes are a huge deal for solo developers and tiny companies. Selling direct can be extremely complicated, especially if you want to properly follow every possible sales tax law which applies to you.

Putting your software on the App Store or Steam or similar (notably not Google Play[1]) means you're just getting paid royalties, not selling a product to individual customers.

[1] https://play.google.com/intl/ALL_us/about/developer-distribu...

"You are the merchant of record for Products you sell through the Store." I'd bet that 95% of smaller Android app developers have not hired an accountant to review every last detail, and therefore have failed to pay every cent of tax they owe. Unless you're very serious about starting a real business, it's a total nightmare.

Re: Benefits of Selling Outside the Mac App Store

#20

Post by milen »

TillE wrote: post #19
tomkinstinch wrote: post #3

Another point to add is that applications sold outside the App Store can avoid the sandboxing restrictions of the Store, and consequently contain functionality that would be not permitted by Apple on the Store (file access, deeper system access, etc.). That said, for my side project ( http://artfulmac.com ) it is absolutely worth it to me as a solo developer to pay Apple their 30% to have them handle fulfillment (inc…

Taxes are a huge deal for solo developers and tiny companies. Selling direct can be extremely complicated, especially if you want to properly follow every possible sales tax law which applies to you. Putting your software on the App Store or Steam or similar (notably not Google Play[1]) means you're just getting paid royalties, not selling a product to individual customers. [1] https://play.google.com/intl/ALL_us/abo…

Indeed you are correct and that's why it's generally simpler to use a service that acts as a reseller - i.e., they are the vendor of record. This means you shift all of the responsibility to them and you don't have to deal with it. Using the likes of PayPal / Stripe is not a good idea because you will be responsible for VAT compliance and with the newly introduced EU legislation, it can be a huge hassle - you need to deal with the MOSS at least. If you're selling software, I can recommend FastSpring - it's what the majority of Mac software houses use, it's highly customisable and they've been around for years.

Furthermore, if you're UK based and use a non-UK marketplace / reseller, then the revenue you receive from the reseller lies outside the scope of UK VAT and you don't have to do anything [1]

The reason why most EU developers on the App Stores don't deal with VAT is because the vendor of record is Apple Luxembourg, thus lies outside the scope. And that's precisely why Apple requires VAT invoices from Luxembourg-based developers.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/vat-how-to-work-out-your-place-of-supply-...

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