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Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

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Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#81

Post by throwawayaway »

sp4ke wrote: post #78

I have always been fascinated by computers and passionate about programming. I never taught I would ever feel ashamed of my passion ... that maybe I have been part of the decline of freedom and privacy, the same things I've always believed in and fought for . I've finished reading again 1984 a short time ago, and I felt sick reading this article and realizing we're making a monster. I stopped using Facebook a few mon…

the old microphone/webcam in the bedroom retort usually illustrates to people that they have got something to hide, then in their own time they will discover they have more they don't want to share.

make stuff that doesn't leak privacy, then you should feel no shame.

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#82

Post by thaumaturgy »

Futurebot wrote: post #69
thaumaturgy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, we have nothing to be ashamed of I'm going to mostly side-step the de facto response to this ("surveillance isn't about shame, it's about control, etc. etc."), because the more interesting thing here is that there's a good chance your point of view is going to become the predominant one in future generations. Generations like mine were taught that privacy was important for freedom (e.g. 1984), and even though…

I have a different read on that. Control doesn't work if no one cares about social opprobrium. If the culture has changed so that whatever behavior you're engaging in is no longer considered taboo / everyone else is doing it, you cannot be controlled by others using the threat of exposure against you (this doesn't apply to behaviors that are actually made illegal, so would be protestors/dissidents get no help from th…

> Is it ignorance, foolishness, feelings of invulnerability, the belief that their opinions represent a silent majority?

Or impermanence. Who's going to give you a hard time for a comment you wrote six months ago? Two months? Two weeks?

Thanks for posting. You described a lot of what I've been mulling over, but you did it way more articulately than I could've. (I'm saving it for later reference.)

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#83

Post by throwawayaway »

zzalpha wrote: post #36
thaumaturgy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like with many other causes, you start with yourself -- and that might be enough. These days, not participating in the latest electronics and social sites and whatnot is enough to make people ask you questions. If you think carefully enough about why you're making the choices you make, then you can give pretty reasonable answers. I don't own a smart phone, or have a Facebook or LinkedIn account. I still buy paper boo…

Eh, by that reasoning, you could equally live without electricity or running water. Technology is leveraged, not because it's strictly necessary, but because it's useful. After all, the very website we're having this conversation on isn't necessary. You could get by just fine without it. But it's useful, isn't it? Frankly, I don't think quietly opting out solves anything. Would it have helped if some folks opted out…

personally i like the amish approach, before you make decisions on some technology, watch how others use it and take time to understand it before adopting it yourself.

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#84

Post by ZenoArrow »

sp4ke wrote: post #78

I have always been fascinated by computers and passionate about programming. I never taught I would ever feel ashamed of my passion ... that maybe I have been part of the decline of freedom and privacy, the same things I've always believed in and fought for . I've finished reading again 1984 a short time ago, and I felt sick reading this article and realizing we're making a monster. I stopped using Facebook a few mon…

You feel awful now, but what you've written is very encouraging. You're doing the right thing.

Coding can be put to good use too. Perhaps there's an open-source project you can contribute to that has a positive benefit to offer society? What social injustices are you most passionate about?

I also intend to leave Facebook (again) very soon. The only reason I haven't in the past is that I didn't want to lose contact with some people, but I figure if I share my email address as I leave anyone that wants to contact me can do. We don't have to employ a scorched earth policy every time we want to change, losing everything we got from something, we often have better alternatives.

I should move away from Gmail for similar reasons, does anyone have suggestions of a secure email service with webmail and Android app access?

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#85

Post by throwawayaway »

zzalpha wrote: post #27
jeffhiggins wrote: post #16

The uncomfortable truth is that many HN readers are the ones gleefully building these tools.

Do you really think said hackers are "gleefully building these tools" specifically in order to enable a surveillance state? Of course not. It's been said a million times before: every technology can be used for good or for ill. After all, the technology that enables you to drink the water coming out of your tap, one of the most important developments in the history of mankind, is the very same technology that makes m…

one of my lecturers was gleefully doing so and knew the implications more than a decade ago, not all are wide eyed innocents as you suggest.

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#86

Post by throwawayaway »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #84
sp4ke wrote: post #78

I have always been fascinated by computers and passionate about programming. I never taught I would ever feel ashamed of my passion ... that maybe I have been part of the decline of freedom and privacy, the same things I've always believed in and fought for . I've finished reading again 1984 a short time ago, and I felt sick reading this article and realizing we're making a monster. I stopped using Facebook a few mon…

You feel awful now, but what you've written is very encouraging. You're doing the right thing. Coding can be put to good use too. Perhaps there's an open-source project you can contribute to that has a positive benefit to offer society? What social injustices are you most passionate about? I also intend to leave Facebook (again) very soon. The only reason I haven't in the past is that I didn't want to lose contact wi…

you can go with yandex, but it's all very much a case of pick your poison.

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#87

Post by ZenoArrow »

hobs wrote: post #75
thaumaturgy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like with many other causes, you start with yourself -- and that might be enough. These days, not participating in the latest electronics and social sites and whatnot is enough to make people ask you questions. If you think carefully enough about why you're making the choices you make, then you can give pretty reasonable answers. I don't own a smart phone, or have a Facebook or LinkedIn account. I still buy paper boo…

While I am doing some of these things, the Luddites didn't have much of an influence over the industrial revolution, they were discarded in the dustbin of history along with anyone who stood in the way of increased profits and globalization. What I often see is that most individuals see that the benefits outweigh the negatives (all the people that say "I have nothing to hide." over and over) of safety over privacy, a…

I find people that say "I have nothing to hide" often haven't thought it through. Easiest example is porn habits, it's not necessarily something people keep private, but many people want to, yet it can skip their mind when they say "I have nothing to hide". IIRC the Snowden leaks included stories of political dissidents being kept in their place by threatening to expose their porn habits (not necessarily anything illegal, just potentially embarrassing).

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#88

Post by sp4ke »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #84
sp4ke wrote: post #78

I have always been fascinated by computers and passionate about programming. I never taught I would ever feel ashamed of my passion ... that maybe I have been part of the decline of freedom and privacy, the same things I've always believed in and fought for . I've finished reading again 1984 a short time ago, and I felt sick reading this article and realizing we're making a monster. I stopped using Facebook a few mon…

You feel awful now, but what you've written is very encouraging. You're doing the right thing. Coding can be put to good use too. Perhaps there's an open-source project you can contribute to that has a positive benefit to offer society? What social injustices are you most passionate about? I also intend to leave Facebook (again) very soon. The only reason I haven't in the past is that I didn't want to lose contact wi…

You're right, we should use our skills in open source projects. I think decentralized technologies are the way to fix the problems with Internet.

Speaking of Gmail, I also want to stop using Google services. I went back the good old times, just setup a mail server on a linux dedicated box and started sharing my new email address. It's going to be painful but there's no way around it. You can then setup POP or IMAP on Android like we always did before.

I remember a discussion with a friend of mine about the source of these problems, we came up to the conclusion that Internet was an amazing technology when poeple could speak up their minds freely, this is how Internet itself was built and the same for good Open Source projects like Linux. But now we let the greedy guys run businesses with internet and they are trying to replicate the physical world. We are basically transforming what was a door to creativity and freedom to a mirror of our daily lives. And the common factor to all these problems is "identity". Most internet technologies and new startups are obsessed with identity. We are linking authentication to more social networks. Linking our phones to online services and always giving our identity in the process. I wonder what would be the Internet if there was no way to have "identity" at all supported in the protocol level. Maybe it's too late.

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#89

Post by ZenoArrow »

throwawayaway wrote: post #86
ZenoArrow wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You feel awful now, but what you've written is very encouraging. You're doing the right thing. Coding can be put to good use too. Perhaps there's an open-source project you can contribute to that has a positive benefit to offer society? What social injustices are you most passionate about? I also intend to leave Facebook (again) very soon. The only reason I haven't in the past is that I didn't want to lose contact wi…

you can go with yandex, but it's all very much a case of pick your poison.

Thank you for the suggestion throwawayaway, but I don't think Yandex is quite what I'm looking for. They might state that they don't share data with the NSA, but I wouldn't trust any company that relies on data mining for their profits with my email.

I don't mind paying a small monthly fee for a secure email service. Does that expand my options?

Re: Ai Weiwei Is Living in Our Future

#90

Post by tim333 »

Ai Weiwei is not living our future. I'm a big fan of Weiwei but being the best known opposition figure against the worlds largest dictatorship is something that's unlikely to happen to most of us. Also his "Fuck your mother, the party central committee" themed photos are obviously trying to wind them up. Here in London we have CCTV everywhere and the secret services no doubt have the ability to bug me and read my mail but it effects me and most people not at all - no one is interested especially. I'd be honoured to be Weiwei.
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