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A new Microsoft browser?

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Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#61

Post by berkut »

lostlogin wrote: post #57
venomsnake wrote: post #48

Does anyone have idea if the idiocy of integrating the IE browser so deep inside the os is finally solved, that version updates are possible? And will spartan be stand alone binary, like IE should have been at launch?

I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?

"Breaking" Netscape? A stand-alone application? Really?

Anticompetitive maybe, but Microsoft embedding IE into Windows didn't break Netscape or other browsers in any functional way from my recollection (and I was using NN 2/3/4, Opera, IE 3/4/5/6 on 28.8 and 56k modems at the time).

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#62

Post by jn »

jmduke wrote: post #42
ynniv wrote: post #26

Recently the news broke that Microsoft may be working on another browser instead of IE. After reviewing the available evidence I’ve come to the conclusion that, although Microsoft is making a few adjustments, and a name change for IE might be a good idea, the new browser will essentially be IE12. Still, I think we web developers should support the “new browser” narrative. This is how you start an article. I didn't re…

In case you weren't aware, this is referred to as the inverted pyramid (and of course I totally agree -- this is how you start an article): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid

Absolutely agree. I cringe every time I see a long blog post with a self-effacing "tl;dr" block, especially when it's placed at the end of the article. Just follow this "journalistic" style instead and you'll be doing the reader a big favour.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#63

Post by JetSpiegel »

MichaelGG wrote: post #37
wideroots wrote: post #22

I will give it a try if the new browser no longer supports ActiveX and has better extension supports similar to Chrome.

Lack of an addon architecture is what completely killed IE for me. No adblock is a no-go. (It's also the non-idealogical reason I use FF on Android: Chrome is locked down.)

IE11 has adblock built-in. I don't recall the name, but it's somewhere in the advanced options. It takes the Adblock rules files.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#64

Post by kalleboo »

lostlogin wrote: post #57
venomsnake wrote: post #48

Does anyone have idea if the idiocy of integrating the IE browser so deep inside the os is finally solved, that version updates are possible? And will spartan be stand alone binary, like IE should have been at launch?

I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?

IE was deeply embedded because it was created in the bubble of "web all the things!" so they went so far as using IE the renderer for the desktop wallpapers and the file browser (IIRC you could even set a custom index.html for a folder on your harddisk)

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#65

Post by venomsnake »

lostlogin wrote: post #57
venomsnake wrote: post #48

Does anyone have idea if the idiocy of integrating the IE browser so deep inside the os is finally solved, that version updates are possible? And will spartan be stand alone binary, like IE should have been at launch?

I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?

It was the fact that it came with windows and free that broke netscape. That the rendering engine is so embedded in the OS that the question is "will we be able to bring IE X to platform windows Y at all" is just stupid.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#66

Post by nailer »

rictic wrote: post #35
brink wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that he means that there's no storytelling cruft that just fills paragraphs and wastes time. It's short, concise and rich in information.

Yeah, the first paragraph summarized the entire article, which is incredibly respectful of the reader's time. Presumably many sites intentionally leave this out in order to maximize revenue and "engagement."

It would save more time and avoid the appearance of impropriety if they declared their Microsoft sponsorship in the second paragraph, rather than after the article.

Edit: if it's unclear, this is not accusing anyone of bias: good writing should make any involvement in the subject matter explicit. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appearance_of_impropriety The article is sponsored by modern.ie which is a Microsoft initative. I happen to agree with the article, however being forthright about these matters would strengthen its point.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#67

Post by kalleboo »

MichaelGG wrote: post #45
vcjohnson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure IE has an adblock extension

Right but as I understand, it uses some binary hacking/undocumented APIs to go about it's job. I also use Vimperator, various tracking blockers, search redirectors (disconnect me for Google search), etc.

There are definitely supported APIs for extending IE (starting with IE 4.0 in 1997), but you do have to write native or .NET code, it's not "hack together some javascript and CSS" like Chrome/Safari/Firefox.

First couple of Google results:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa744101(v=vs.85).as...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5643819/developing-intern...

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#68

Post by nailer »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #50
brickmort wrote: post #44

I don't mean to be so disparaging, but Microsoft really should just take IE out back and shoot it.

That's not really helpful. IE is no longer a shitty browser; why should it be killed off?

It really is. Even in IE11 there's a bunch of busted basics. The CustomEvent constructor is broken out of the box.

Edit: see details in post below.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#69

Post by mcintyre1994 »

tdkl wrote: post #52
joenathan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google abandons projects swiftly when they think that don't make sense; Wave, iGoogle, Reader, Glass?, Buzz, Plus?, Answers, Google Video, Google Checkout/Wallet, Orkut, Picasa, Gears, etc... When you are a large company you need to focus your resources into areas where you can be effective and not stretch yourself too thin.

> and not stretch yourself too thin. But they are. Keep, Fit are prime examples of stretching but offering a mediocre "service". The way I see it, Google turned hard into a direction from building services with APIs into data collection silos. Google+ with Photos, Keep, Fit, Now. The data is even isolated from each other or really hard to access : - you can't access Keep data anywhere, or what you upload on it - Goog…

FYI you can access Keep anywhere at keep google.com Other than that I do agree with you in part, there's a few things now with multiple incompatible implementations and it'd be really nice to see them tidied up and merged sensibly.

Re: A new Microsoft browser?

#70

Post by DanBC »

venomsnake wrote: post #65
lostlogin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?

It was the fact that it came with windows and free that broke netscape. That the rendering engine is so embedded in the OS that the question is "will we be able to bring IE X to platform windows Y at all" is just stupid.

MS prevented vendors from bundling Netscape in Windows. MS used the fact that IE was tied so deeply into the OS as a reason for not being able to unbundle it. MS used APIs to favour IE over other software - MS made their OS work better with their browser than with other competitor browsers.
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