Amish are very nice people, warm, friendly and with strong convictions. I was lucky to have been invited once to share a day with them (a visited a community in Ohio, had dinner, talked to them). But nevertheless ,the whole "no electricity" thing is crazy. Depending on the area there are workshops devoted in converting electrical appliances to pneumatic power. Yes they take things like blenders, food processors, pull out the electric motor put in an a pnumatic one. Then, of course, run compressed air (or vacuuum?) lines through their house. Some reintepret it as "you can't be connected to the mains" so they charge batteries then use the batteries to supply power to the house or machinery. Think about the brainpower and time spent into doing that. There is not logic or careful analysis of "advantages of electricity vs disadvantages" it is plain silly.
What Do We Want, Really?
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Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#12I don't think my kids would be better off without TV, and I suspect most people don't actually think that, either. TV (just as books) is a tool for delivering entertainment, education, and culture, and it's reasonably effective at that. I'm glad I had TV when I was a child. The thing I value most is that it inspired an interest in science, math, and technology. Thanks, Square One, Bill Nye, Beakman's World, Discover,…
I agree - I think his TV example is a little over-simplified, especially given the enormous range of quality and content available. Some of the best story-telling is taking place in between commercials these days, just like Dickens and Eliot were printed between printed ads in serials.
I also bet that if you asked most parents whether they let their kids watch anything they wanted (to the extent they are able to control that...), they would say they do not and at least have a concept of what they want their kids to watch and what they don't allow their kids to watch. I'm sure many would skew positively towards the educational shows you mentioned, and I'm sure many are not encouraging or even allowing their 8 year olds to watch MTV spring break (old person reference? haha).
Still, I think the overall point that there are costs that need to be recognized is valid, but I would say it is manifested more regularly than the article suggests in the sort of regulation I describe above.
That being said, I think his overall point that western society as a whole has not properly confronted the true costs of technology is fairly legitimate (see all the data scandals, the NSA, hackers etc.), but I also see certain corrections being made already (see the article itself and all backlash to the data scandals, NSA, hackers, etc.), and that given the rapid pace of tech development in the past 20 years the reactions are not particularly slow - we'll see where it all pans out.
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#13Amish are very nice people, warm, friendly and with strong convictions. I was lucky to have been invited once to share a day with them (a visited a community in Ohio, had dinner, talked to them). But nevertheless ,the whole "no electricity" thing is crazy. Depending on the area there are workshops devoted in converting electrical appliances to pneumatic power. Yes they take things like blenders, food processors, pull…
How did you get invited to share a day with them? I'm interested in doing the same.
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#14I just watched episode two of Black Mirror (on Netflix). It shows an interesting world in which tech has really taken over the human.
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#15Claims like the one that "we" want what we cannot possibly have at the price "we" are willing to pay are tiresome. Who is this "we"?
I'm perfectly willing to pay the price of living the way I do, and so are a great many people here. Most of us have given the technologies we use some thought and selected the ones we use to maximize benefit and minimize cost.
There's no data presented in the article, just some guy's some informal impression that he can get away with accusing most people of hypocrisy. I dunno... I don't feel like a hypocrite. Do the majority of people here? My informal impression is they don't, but that's worth about as much as the informal impression in the article.
A more plausible reality is that we all have doubts that we've chosen well, when making choices of technology etc, and we're aware that both costs and benefits can be hidden and only show up at a later time. But that latent concern is quite different from what's being imputed by the article, which doesn't even get the Amish right: their rejection of many modern technologies is driven not by any consequentialist cost-benefit analysis, but by a deontological desire for plainness, self-effacement and submission to the rule or order of their anabaptist religion.
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#16[deleted]
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#17I don't think the core of this article is about technology at all. My main takeaway is that often we imagine that the futures we're working towards can be accomplished through incrementalism. But it really requires far more radical action than that.
This can also be applied to self-improvement.
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#18Does a horse and buggy go fast enough to notice the Doppler effect?
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#19Amish are very nice people, warm, friendly and with strong convictions. I was lucky to have been invited once to share a day with them (a visited a community in Ohio, had dinner, talked to them). But nevertheless ,the whole "no electricity" thing is crazy. Depending on the area there are workshops devoted in converting electrical appliances to pneumatic power. Yes they take things like blenders, food processors, pull…
> Then, of course, run compressed air (or vacuuum?) lines through their house.
This is fascinating to me and I respect the dedication to principles that it demonstrates, independent of any logical arguments one could apply.
I'm curious, where does the energy for the compressed air come from -- surely there's not an electric compressor out back? I had always understood the Amish philosophy re: electricity as an explicit decision to take things slowly, value hard work, etc by using human or animal power; how did the folks you met justify use of compressed air?
Re: What Do We Want, Really?
#20Until you get sick and you are happy to have access to modern medicine. #Sight.
The Amish do use modern medicine. At least some of them. It depends on the community.
How do they reconcile it with the Ordnung's prohibition on the use of mains electricity? Almost all modern diagnostic, surgical and other medical equipment requires it.