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Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

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Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what idiom should I use Others are replying, but I don't know that there's any idiom needed. Raising the price to whatever people willingly pay is just being a merchant. Is this the market-economics version of political correctness? I don't think it is. Political correctness applies when people feel they can't plainly say something that's true. In this case, using "price gouging" adds nothing to the statement that pr…

using "price gouging" adds nothing to the statement that prices are high except a sense of outrage Of course it does. It says: 1. the subject is a retail product with a standard price , as opposed to a market product where the price is determined by bids and asks. 2. the price is temporarily higher than the standard price due to some sort of unforeseen disruption . 3. the price will return to the standard price when…

'Gouging' is an epithet used by those who abhor the practice; that's the source of the confusion. It means more than "more than usual" or "temporarily more than MSRP"; it specifically means unfair. 'Gouging' is even a legal term, for a practice illegal in some circumstances and jurisdictions.

So by using the term, you've added confusion, including the need for your extra verbiage, to the effect of "...not that there's anything wrong with it!"

(I also think you're giving way too much weight to MSRP. Actual prices to the consumer always vary, even without a bid/ask 'market'. The MSRP -- as a coordination mechanism among producers and retailers used to loosely enforce pricing discipline -- is arguably a more-unfair practice than this market-clearing 'gouging'. So you're using a mildly-disapproving term, 'gouging', for the praiseworthy practice of maintaining a sellable inventory, and an mildly-approving term, 'standard', for a potentially-unfair collusive practice. The connotations of your chosen language are backwards!)

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase you're looking for is "market clearing price" or just "market price". Those are definitely not the phrases I'm looking for. They don't contain enough information. I hope I can unwrap this without being too confusing. First, you're preaching to the choir here. I'm pro-market-prices. I don't think there's anything unfair about the practice of price gouging. I support it 100%. The issue here is you, and the o…

Thought experiment: if gas prices doubled overnight would anyone get upset at gas station owners? Exactly. That's why it's not price gouging. Something's not price gouging when people get upset? Or maybe you weren't paying any attention to sentiment when gas prices were soaring a few years back? People hated gas station owners, and there certainly were accusations of "gouging".

and there certainly were accusations of "gouging"

That was a bad example. But those accusations were obviously made by idiots.

My point was that if the manufacturer doubles the price no one gets mad at the retailer. Except idiots.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#83

Those complaints about the cost are hilarious. Either the person making them is a kid, or they have no "on-board" memory between their ears at all. The first 5 Gig HD I bought was a cheapo Maxtor at Staples and it set me back $500 about 10 years ago.

The first hard drive my father bought was 5mb. It connected to an Atari 800 through the Atari's 4 joystick ports. It's price was somewhere around $2000. That fact is utterly meaningless when comparing the price of HDs and SSDs (which are significantly more expensive than HDs) in the marketplace. Today.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#84
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's retarded. Stop kissing up to Greenpeace and give me my SSD, Apple. :(

Yeah, really! They should provide options to ship with the best SSD options available, even if it has to come at a premium price. They need to let the market decide.

Yes, and while they're at it, why not offer a MacBook with Windows instead of OS X? Why not offer a subscription music service? Why do they insist on making premium products?

Why not make one of everything like Dell and let the market decide?

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#85
OK, so.

A couple months ago I bought a new MacBook Pro and picked up the 256GB SSD option on it. The drive's Toshiba (Apple ships Toshiba and Samsung drives -- I don't know model numbers).

So far it's been wonderful. Everything in this machine (processor, RAM, etc.) is a significant bump up from what I'd had before, but the SSD performance boost is still easy to notice; even though it's not the fastest drive you can get, the impression I have from watching the various videos of people with Intel drives is that the difference -- for the sorts of things I do -- is basically negligible (in order to notice it I'd have to be regularly writing huge files and timing the process).

Typical time from turning the machine on to having a desktop in front of me is around 15 seconds; that goes up if I have lots of peripherals plugged in (as I often do at work, where I end up using every available port), but still makes my older laptop painful even to contemplate.

Of course, both boot time and cold launch of applications are really just for show (though it's all very fast). The real point, for me, is the sorts of mundane but read-intensive things I do all the time: grepping over big log files or large codebases, getting status and diffs out of local checkouts, etc. There's just no contest here; that stuff happens stupid fast, and by itself would make the SSD worth having.

It should be noted that I haven't really paid attention to or particularly cared about write performance; the only time it would be noticeable is when pulling lots of stuff from a remote repo (lots of small writes to a bunch of files), but any write-performance problems with that get drowned out by things like network latency.

I'm also not particularly worried about wearing the drive out or anything like that; Toshiba's estimates for the lifetime of their drives are almost certainly a bit optimistic, but a more conservative and realistic number (confirmed by various places where I've seen it discussed) is that I'd need to sustain a pattern of writing around 20GB/day to have a significant chance of wearing out the drive in five years.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#86

Those complaints about the cost are hilarious. Either the person making them is a kid, or they have no "on-board" memory between their ears at all. The first 5 Gig HD I bought was a cheapo Maxtor at Staples and it set me back $500 about 10 years ago.

That's probably cheap compared to all the monks you'd have to pay to write that down on parchment.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#87
post #55

Those complaints about the cost are hilarious. Either the person making them is a kid, or they have no "on-board" memory between their ears at all. The first 5 Gig HD I bought was a cheapo Maxtor at Staples and it set me back $500 about 10 years ago.

Cost is and always will be relative.

Especially when things move as fast as they do with memory and storage. Just 5 or 6 years ago I was buying a new 80gb SATA disk for just over CAD$100 (iirc). We've gone from around $1/gb then to almost exactly 10¢/gb. Probably cheaper for you guys south of the 49th.

edit: DirectCanada has disks cheaper than NCIX by almost 2¢/gb as well.

In comparison the average price for an SSD is CAD$375 for ~120gb, so let's call it $400 to make things easy, it's going to cost more with tax anyway. So it's around $3/gb or $3.50/gb which is 35x the cost.

However if you are building a new box and spending $1500+ anyway then an SSD is probably a very wise choice.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#88
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I chose "gouging" and "non-gouging". Why the nice name for a supplier who doesn't, you know, supply? Discount camera stores are infamous for advertising things at great prices to get you in the store but being out of stock. It's a crappy way to do biz and should have a crappy name; "non-gouging" doesn't qualify.

Why the nice name for a supplier who doesn't, you know, supply? Again with the criticize-without-offering-alternative. Discount camera stores are infamous for advertising things at great prices to get you in the store but being out of stock. It's a crappy way to do biz and should have a crappy name; "non-gouging" doesn't qualify. Right, that's called bait and switch. No relation to price gouging.

> Right, that's called bait and switch. No relation to price gouging.

Actually, I didn't describe bait and switch. And, even if I did, the question isn't whether that bad behavior has any relationship to price-gouging, the question is whether suppliers who engage in crappy behavior should be given good labels.

Suppliers who advertise at prices and don't come through are crappy, regardless of what they do after not coming through. Calling them "non-gouging" is inappropriate.

Re: Coding Horror: The State of Solid State Hard Drives

#90
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's a huge deal. I'm moving to a workflow where I import to the SSD, do my work, then immediately move the raws to an external drive to save space.

This way TRIM would be useful because you're deleting data a lot? Do you cope with that by running linux/win7 aside or do you use Disk Utility to 'free empty space' once in a while?

I haven't run into the problem yet. How do you ask Disk Utility to call TRIM? Does writing 0's over every free block actually have the same effect?
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