Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#31

Post by fennecfoxen » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:23 PM UTC

swatow wrote: post #29

carlesfe wrote: post #15

Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they b…

In general government regulation should prevent negative externalities, not restrict entry to certain occupations in order to keep wages high for those occupations. The issues you cite (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc) all involve externalities or market failures. Low wages are not an eternality or a market failure. Issues of redistribution are best dealt with by taxation [1]. Why does a p…

It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver.

But then, systematic discrimination against new entrants to the labor market and similar barriers to entry have long been typical of many European nations, and it's one of the reasons that youth unemployment over there is such a big problem even in healthier economies than the current one. A quick Google suggests that Spain's youth unemployment rate is about 54% (... contrast with the #1 EU outlier, Germany, with the most liberalized economy and youth unemployment at 7.8%)

Unfortunately, this is probably one of those economic systems typified by positive feedback cycles.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#32

Post by bane » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:27 PM UTC

kartikkumar wrote: post #18

carlesfe wrote: post #15

Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they b…

> Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything else. But this isn't true right? It's not that Uber is eliminating taxi jobs, it's that they are competing with the status quo. Surely, if current drivers would lose their jobs, they'd be more than welcome to hop on-board the Uber train (or I guess I should say "Uber car"). Is there a reason that you think that these drivers wouldn…

For that to work, any debts or obligations the driver owes on their medallion would have to "go away".

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#33

Post by enigami » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:30 PM UTC

I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges [1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers.

Whenever a new and disruptive business model is introduced in a market, people (making a living out of the existing business) might show some resistance and even the governments will take some steps to safeguard the votes (I mean the affected people). However, in the due course things will settle down and the new entrant will emerge as winner (with an understanding of the local culture and regulation).

I personally feel, country like India definitely requires Uber like services to ease the pain of millions of travelers who are literally looted by the unfair taxi drivers and ineffective fare system around the country.

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11315782/Uber-I...

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#34

Post by mobiplayer » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

enigami wrote: post #33

I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges [1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers. Whenever a new and disruptive business model is in…

Do you know why Uber wasn't invented in Spain? Because it is illegal. People giving rides for money have existed always and they've been punished because they were breaking the law.

Now they're telling us it is "disruptive" to make crime more organized? Hey, we've got this nice app in order to receive your illegal service in an easy, trackable and convenient way.

I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it is illegal. There's a huge difference. I'm all in for an open taxi market as a side business to cheap public transportation like we have in most places in Europe.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#35

Post by boacon » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #31

swatow wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general government regulation should prevent negative externalities, not restrict entry to certain occupations in order to keep wages high for those occupations. The issues you cite (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc) all involve externalities or market failures. Low wages are not an eternality or a market failure. Issues of redistribution are best dealt with by taxation [1]. Why does a p…

It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver. But then, systematic discrimination against new entrants to the labor market and similar barriers to entry have long been typical of many European nations, and it's one of the reasons that youth unemployment o…

Spaniard here.

The main difference between political parties in Spain is whether they prefer to build or burn churches, so to speak. In economic matters they are all highly interventionist, and we like it this way, sadly.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#36

Post by fennecfoxen » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:04 PM UTC

adlpz wrote: post #9

jasonisalive wrote: post #2

Good job Europe! Moving boldly into a 21st century of open borders, individual responsibility, free choice and minimal government, one banned American troublemaker at a time.

I don't know what are you talking about, but if selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation is "the 21st century", I'd like my dear Europe to stay in the 20th, thank you very much.

selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation

Exactly. Remaining sold out to predatory local companies which take care to hide their moral compasses, the ones who bought the local legislation to begin with... that's the proper European way. Lots of little fiefdoms exacting tribute from the population, all nice and patriotic.

Predatory local companies, you object? Yeah... there's a reason it's easy for Uber to charge half the price of a standard taxi. I mean, I don't trust Uber further than I can throw my smartphone -- just don't labor under the delusion that you're doing the common man a favor by keeping them out. The common man is the guy trying to take uberPool or uberPop or whatever service de jure, to save a little cash.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#37

Post by wdewind » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:07 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #31

swatow wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general government regulation should prevent negative externalities, not restrict entry to certain occupations in order to keep wages high for those occupations. The issues you cite (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc) all involve externalities or market failures. Low wages are not an eternality or a market failure. Issues of redistribution are best dealt with by taxation [1]. Why does a p…

It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver. But then, systematic discrimination against new entrants to the labor market and similar barriers to entry have long been typical of many European nations, and it's one of the reasons that youth unemployment o…

> It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver.

I don't think it's that simple. A taxi medallion is an agreement made with the government. If the government then turns around and allows Uber in, what other agreements that they've made will they go back on? It undermines the social contract and the reputation of the government.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#38

Post by pinaceae » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:14 PM UTC

Spending a lot of time in Barcelona each year - what exactly is there to disrupt? taxi service is excellent, at all times of day. prices are reasonable, they know where to take you. cars are ok, clean.

i get it in the US, with all those shitty cabs and foreign drivers who don't know their areas, but Europe is different.

Apps like mytaxi.com are closing the payment/booking gap - backed by some powerful companies like Daimler.

Uber-like services are needed in the US where the government is unable to actually do its work due to a culture of distrust and paranoia.

There is no electronic health record, Google could not make it work. Sci Fi in the US. Austrians have had it for years now. Awesomely simple, proven. No startups needed. Also less chances for creating the next billionaires, but maybe it's ok if the rest of the population can enjoy working public services.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#39

Post by asocial » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:19 PM UTC

mobiplayer wrote: post #34

enigami wrote: post #33

I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges [1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers. Whenever a new and disruptive business model is in…

Do you know why Uber wasn't invented in Spain? Because it is illegal. People giving rides for money have existed always and they've been punished because they were breaking the law. Now they're telling us it is "disruptive" to make crime more organized? Hey, we've got this nice app in order to receive your illegal service in an easy, trackable and convenient way. I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it is…

Uber's entire premise seems to be that a regulated market is by definition a corrupt one, that the "crime" lies in following the laws, not breaking them. One person's "organized crime" is another's "free market enterprise".

Their argument, and their attitude, fails when they encounter cultures which don't share the US' antipathy towards labor and consumer rights. There are places where the taxis manage to not be terrible, and where people prefer services to be regulated beyond "caveat emptor." Insane, I know.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#40

Post by fennecfoxen » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:19 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #37

fennecfoxen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver. But then, systematic discrimination against new entrants to the labor market and similar barriers to entry have long been typical of many European nations, and it's one of the reasons that youth unemployment o…

> It's not just that. It's a question of why a person deserves more of a break just because they happen to be currently employed as a taxi driver whereas someone else seeks to be newly employed as an Uber driver. I don't think it's that simple. A taxi medallion is an agreement made with the government. If the government then turns around and allows Uber in, what other agreements that they've made will they go back on…

Is that a procedural argument I smell?

If you're sincere about this and if that's really the only objection, would you be willing to champion Uber (and its future competitors) if a way could be found to wind down the existing agreement in a manner that is not ostentatiously financially damaging to taxi medallion holders?

Because as far as a "social contract" goes, this contract is basically selling out its people to private entities -- taxi customers as property of the medallion-holder. Under other circumstances this would be incredibly objectionable: imagine the outcry if a government decided to sell Uber the exclusive right to run taxis and car services in a city.