Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#1

Post by salarynegging » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 8:42 AM UTC

I've reached the final stage of interviews for a mid-level dev job.

The interviewer asks me how much money I want to be paid. Having read patio11's essay about salary negotiation, I know not to give a number first. Unfortunately, after attempting to get past the question without answering, I realize that I am not patio11, and cannot get past the question without a lot of awkward silence. I crack and give a number.

How do I know how much money to ask for? Assuming that this is my first non-internship full-time dev gig, and that this job is not in San Francisco, and that I do not have any data about how much this company might pay mid-level devs.

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#2

Post by zorrb » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 9:27 AM UTC

patio11 is correct.

You should always try to come from the frame of you being excited about the opportunity and first want to make sure it's a good fit. The onus isn't on you to give a number, and in fact it's pretty ridiculous for them to demand it.

If you've reached the final stages you should be getting an offer letter with a salary amount and then you can negotiate from there. That not happening sounds strange.

With all that said it's pretty straightforward to use a site like glassdoor to see what salaries are at similiar jobs in the area. I see you made a new account just to ask this, iss this a larger company?

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#3

Post by mkaziz » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 12:09 PM UTC

Is it bad to just give them a number?

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#4

Post by debacle » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 1:30 PM UTC

Have you ever had a development job? You can give them a number without putting yourself in a position of having given them a number, e.g. "Previously I was making $x" or "I know the salary range for developers in my area is $y to $z."

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#5

Post by joe-m » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:32 PM UTC

mkaziz wrote: post #3

Is it bad to just give them a number?

If your number is below theirs, you potentially just cost yourself a chunk of salary. If you aim too high to avoid this outcome, you could look delusional.

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#6

Post by kohanz » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 2:57 PM UTC

joe-m wrote: post #5

mkaziz wrote: post #3

Is it bad to just give them a number?

If your number is below theirs, you potentially just cost yourself a chunk of salary. If you aim too high to avoid this outcome, you could look delusional.

That's why it is recommended to thoroughly research and understand your market value in the location and field that you are negotiating. Talk to other developers in the area, research online, etc. - finding out reasonable salary expectations is not impossible.

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#7

Post by jrjarrett » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:15 PM UTC

So here's a related question - if you hold firm and do not give a number, get an offer, and it's substantially below where you currently are/what you feel you are worth, how do you negotiate from that position?

Can you even?

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#8

Post by debacle » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 3:32 PM UTC

jrjarrett wrote: post #7

So here's a related question - if you hold firm and do not give a number, get an offer, and it's substantially below where you currently are/what you feel you are worth, how do you negotiate from that position? Can you even?

You literally can't even.

In reality, you can negotiate from any position. A master negotiator can pull an ask for 60k followed by an ask for 100k without batting an eye. Most people are not master negotiators and tend to only negotiate their salary a few times in a decade.

The best way to negotiate is to hold all the cards, but even if you lay everything on the table, you can still hold the company over the coals if you know what to say or how to say it.

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#9

Post by Jeremy1026 » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

joe-m wrote: post #5

mkaziz wrote: post #3

Is it bad to just give them a number?

If your number is below theirs, you potentially just cost yourself a chunk of salary. If you aim too high to avoid this outcome, you could look delusional.

I typically reply with, "quarter-mil." Then wait. Typically they will respond with something that hints to their budget so I can give a more informed number. My initial number is high enough that they know I'm not being serious, but opens up the number discussion.

Re: Ask HN: How much money do I ask for?

#10

Post by salarynegging » Wed, Dec 31, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

zorrb wrote: post #2

patio11 is correct. You should always try to come from the frame of you being excited about the opportunity and first want to make sure it's a good fit. The onus isn't on you to give a number, and in fact it's pretty ridiculous for them to demand it. If you've reached the final stages you should be getting an offer letter with a salary amount and then you can negotiate from there. That not happening sounds strange. W…

It is a large company that opened a new office in a different city, but there are no salaries online from positions in this new office.

I can get an idea of how much a software engineer at the same company in, say, San Francisco makes, but of course I'll be making less here because of the difference in the cost of living.

My default number would be the median salary for a software engineer in my area, but to be honest, I'm a more valuable employee than the average engineer in my area, and think that after this lengthy interview process, my prospective employer agrees.

I've been in the awkward "I need a number situation" and have missed out on a lot of money because of it. One time, I even gave $X, and my interviewer came back with $X - ($X * 0.05). After a month of working at this place, I realized that I could have asked for twice as much money.