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Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

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Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.

Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more…

Your statements imply you think increased individual responsibility, free choice and reduced government is desirable in general, and by Europeans (and Spaniards) in particular.

That's not necessarily the case.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#12
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.

Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more…

You are welcome to do what you want in America, but as far as my country (not Spain) goes, here is a list of things the general people believe in -

1. Strong government - Being a country of diverse cultural values, it is imperative that there is a strong national government who can take care of stuff if things go bad. If that means big government, so be it.

2. Free choice - While freedom of opinion is important and respected in a majority of cases, we don't believe in the US style First Amendment. Social harmony is more important than free speech. If that means less freedom, so be it.

3. Personal responsibility - There are millions born into poverty, and it is the responsibility of the government and the citizens of my country to lift them up. That will eventually imply that we get a better quality of life. If that means more taxes, so be it.

Given that we are a democracy, we have structured our government and civil systems depending on what the majority believe. And yes that means strong regulation which might imply in some cases that it is tougher to do business than it should be. Just because some American libertarian rascals tell us otherwise does not mean we are going to allow them to come and break our laws.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#13
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.

Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more…

I don't think that any legislation was created for UBER in this case and here in the UK at least, we regularly prosecute unlicenced taxi firms - http://www.thecomet.net/news/unlicensed_taxi_driver_from_she...

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#14
post #8

Good job Europe! Moving boldly into a 21st century of open borders, individual responsibility, free choice and minimal government, one banned American troublemaker at a time.

Let's just list "Europe" when Spain does something. Just like we all should think anything that happens in Alabama is descriptive of the whole of the United States.

Here, it's not just Spain. From the OP:

France will outlaw the service from January 1, and it has been banned in The Netherlands and Belgian capital Brussels too.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#15
Some perspective from a Spaniard:

The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless.

Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they buy taxi licenses. It is a heavily regulated market, since free competition would draw prices to a point so low that the business is not profitable (or so they say)

On one hand, I've never seen a rich taxi driver. I'd argue it's a low/mid-level job for low/middle class people who have nothing else to do. Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything else.

On the other hand, I'm pro-competition, but I respect regulated markets for some areas (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc). So why not taxis? I'm just not knowledgeable enough to make a strong point for or against taxi drivers.

While Spain is known for its political corruption, courts of law have been pretty professional and their rulings are usually fair and law-compliant. So if a court has banned Uber, it's because the Spanish law protects taxi drivers. It's a political matter.

In summary, devaluing or voiding taxi licenses would leave tens of thousands of people in debt, probably without a job, and with nothing else to work of. Yes, I know that if it were for ice drivers, we would never have had electric fridges, but I can also sympathize. It's basically a matter of jobs. The Spanish government doesn't want our 30% unemployement to be any higher, taxis to be on strike and in general people to be angrier.

TL;DR: Spain is a heavily regulated country and the EU directives also point to that direction. Taxi drivers are a low-mid demographic which need protection or, at least, protection from a total disruption of their jobs from new agents like Uber. Yes, this is bad for free competition, but this is Europe, and the level of legal protection is like this: workers > consumers > companies.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#16

Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they b…

From another Spaniard: Do you know why you don't see rich taxi drivers? There are two answers:

1) Because YOU don't know any. Me neither, but I know a few very wealthy ones (very wealthy for my standards, as in "they own a handful houses")

2) Because the license owner is usually not the driver. This is the trend today at least in Barcelona. They hire at least 3 drivers for an 8 hours shift each, so the taxi works 24 hours a day. So you talk to drivers that are nothing but employees (falsos autónomos probably).

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#17
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.

Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more…

Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government?

I'm not European, nor from the US, but I'd be hesitant in thinking those are all universal or even desirable values.

Personally, I'd agree with the "openness" value, mostly agree with the "personal responsibility" and "free choice" values and mostly disagree with the "minimal government" value.

But these are personal views, and somewhat irrelevant to this discussion. I raise them now because you appear to believe your values are the only ones that are reasonable.

In my country there are very similar reactions to Uber. Interestingly there have been similar reaction to other app-based competitors to the Taxi industry here too, despite them not being from the US.

To me, that shows this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#18

Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they b…

> Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything else.

But this isn't true right? It's not that Uber is eliminating taxi jobs, it's that they are competing with the status quo. Surely, if current drivers would lose their jobs, they'd be more than welcome to hop on-board the Uber train (or I guess I should say "Uber car"). Is there a reason that you think that these drivers wouldn't be able to become Uber drivers? I only have a cursory understanding of the whole taxi situation since I hardly ever use a taxi (although I happened to have called one to take me to the airport tomorrow morning).

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#19
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.

Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more…

> that aggressive legislation against Uber

Uber is not following existing laws.No legislation was created just against Uber,they just came in with their service,and while it's successful,it's illegal in a lot of European countries.

On the contrary,I found most European country went soft on Uber, they didnt ban the company just some of its services.

You can make a case the taxi industry is broken fine.But Uber is just a new middleman replacing the old one.And once it is big enough it will do everything to crush any competition,we all saw how Uber was dealing with Lyft here in US.

Re: Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

#20
AFAIK, this is a first: "The company said it is “respecting the law” with its suspension".

Previously, they always said to continue their ways, going so far as promising to pay fines drivers get (sorry, can't find a link for that, but http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerab... is an example of what they think laws mean)

They basically are trying to force law changes. There is nothing wrong with that. However, the changes they try to force go against the social structure of much of Europe. "The MP’s there should recognize that Uber is working according to one of the pillars of the Dutch taxi law: more market-like circumstances, better quality and lower prices". Their spokesman forgets about the "protect the weak" pillar of society. In a sense, this is a clash between hard capitalism and the social welfare state (a clash of civilizations, if you want)

Also, I find that he change they are trying to affect does not warrant the harsh approach Uber takes.

For that reason alone, I hope that changes, if they come at all, do not come soon.

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