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Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

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Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#241

Post by pwnna »

ethbro wrote: post #172
pwnna wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get your T420 to have no heating issues? What processor/GPU combo do you have? I have a T420 and have major heating issues with it playing games. I've tried everything: thinkpad fan control that turns the fan up to 7000RPM, clearing everything out with compressed air, replacing the thermal paste.. After a few years of observations, I think the problem may lie in software.. It seems like when I'm playing g…

> I have a T420 and have major heating issues with it playing games. In my experience, almost no consumer laptop is designed with a gaming thermal load in mind (aka heavy cpu + max gpu for extended periods of time). I'm not even sure it's possible in a conventional laptop case. ... I know this is completely useless advice, but don't do heavy gaming on a laptop without expecting problems. There are other form factors…

One thing is that the T420 is not sold as a consumer laptop. Under Windows, running AutoCAD/SolidWorks will drive temperature of 90+ degrees. This laptop is suppose to be for those kind of work. Furthermore, I'm not even running heavy games. I'm running things like FTL, or older 3D games like RollerCoaster Tycoon 3, or even sometimes just watching YouTube videos at 1080p.

Regardless, thermal performance under heavy load in laptop should either be tolerated, or the manufacturers should disable higher clock speeds.

My W530 on the other hand has no issue with heat. Heavy gaming puts it to about 75-80C. It is also much bulkier in size.

Edit: my dedicated graphics is off most of the time. Even then, CPU alone can drive the temperature up through the roof.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#242

Post by pwnna »

harmonicon wrote: post #198
pwnna wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get your T420 to have no heating issues? What processor/GPU combo do you have? I have a T420 and have major heating issues with it playing games. I've tried everything: thinkpad fan control that turns the fan up to 7000RPM, clearing everything out with compressed air, replacing the thermal paste.. After a few years of observations, I think the problem may lie in software.. It seems like when I'm playing g…

Every heating issue I had with my T420 is solved by opening up the laptop and thoroughly cleaning with compressed air. It will stays good for a few years until the dust gathers up again.

Do you have numbers on what your computer's temperature is at when it's idling and when it's on full load (CPU maxed out)? At idle I'm coming in at around 52C with ambient temperature at around 20C. Full load I can go to 90C, when the computer will automatically downclock, which is something that's not desirable.

I have opened up my laptop more than once and cleaned all the areas i can, but I still can't seem to get the temperature to go down like others claim. At this point I'm considering replacing my fan assembly and see if I have better luck but haven't gotten around to do so.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#243

Post by slantyyz »

tonyjackson wrote: post #200
driverdan wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of reasons why someone wouldn't buy a gaming desktop. 1. They just spent $2000+ on a laptop and don't want to / can't afford to spend another $1500+ (desktop + decent display). 2. They only game occasionally. 3. They don't want to own more stuff. 4. Their laptop has a warranty which covers any GPU issues. In my case all of these apply.

Congrats? You have everything you want, and no license to complain when your Macbook overheats and dies I guess. And you also seem to recognize that it will die. As long as you use the right tool for the right job, sure...

Your case would have much more weight if similarly equipped 2012 Macbook Pros with discrete GPUs were failing at the same rate as their 2011 counterparts.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#244

Post by chrisan »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #188
Nitramp wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy insurance for things that won't ruin you. The insurer will calculate the risk of whatever happening, and obviously charge more than likelihood * cost. So unless your risk is higher than average, you're losing money. And keep in mind that the average insurance taker probably has higher risk than the overall population.

This is awful advice! Losing a smartphone isn't going to ruin me, but it sure would piss me off to have to fork out £500 or whatever because it gets jacked. Similarly, someone could break into my house and clean it out. Not going to ruin me, but I'd rather not have to replace everything. The whole point of insurance is collective risk-spreading. Yes, this means that the majority (by value) of people with insurance wi…

No, that what you gave is awful advice, to anyone who cares about their money!

Go talk to an _honest_ insurance broker (not some State Farm or other company you see on TV commercials) or better yet a financial adviser. You should reserve an insurance claim for catastrophic issues only. You should also have max deductibles. Forking over 500 for a lost iPhone is a MUCH cheaper deal than paying insurance premiums for that coverage and then the INEVITABLE rate hike because this claim appears on your CLUE report.

I made the same naive mistake as your assumptions when I was young. Lost a 1k watch, made a claim, went about my jolly day with my nice check for $750 (250 deductible). 1 year later when I go to buy a house I am surprised by how much my insurance rates are. FOUR years later after that claim fell off my CLUE report my premiums went way down. I paid the insurance company more than the $750 I got from them.

I was lucky in that my neighbor was an insurance broker and told me low deductibles are taking advantage of suckers and the lesser fortunate who are scared into these policies. What he advises most of his clients to do is take the highest deductible they can, then put aside that amount of deductible in some low earning liquid account. Now when you have an accident you "pay your self" and keep your insurance rates low.

Don't be a sucker.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#245

Post by jamiepenney »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #216
WalterBright wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over time, you're probably paying 2x or 3x in insurance premiums compared with what the loss would be. Consider also the overall effect if you invested the premiums instead of paying them.

This is also nutty. The guy is clearly risk-averse, which means if he did invest he would go for a risk-free rate, which is.... 0.90% right now?

I've had this conversation with friends before. Some people can't see outside their own risk profile.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#246

Post by mng2 »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #227
jwr wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that he did reflow the board. Consumer ovens usually reach 250C, slightly more when in autoclean mode. Lead-free reflow happens above 250C (normally 255-275C). The whole procedure is wild, though, and I wouldn't recommend trying it out. He was lucky that the board didn't get destroyed. Most SMD components can withstand temperatures above 250C for tens of seconds, not necessarily for nine minutes.

He stated he was using a temperature of 340F, which is roughly 170C. Would that temperature also be harmful to SMD components when exposed for several minutes?

Doubtful. As a reference point, typical guidelines for baking out moisture (prior to assembly) are 24 hours at 150C.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#247

Post by shortstuffsushi »

kybernetyk wrote: post #66
proveanegative wrote: post #41

I have question related to this issue. Which MacBook model, new, refurbished or used, should I buy if I want it to last as long as possible and be useful for doing OS X-specific programming tasks?

Any that fits in your budget. I've been running on MBPs since 2008 and never had one give up. (My oldest one still is running as a test device).

Girlfriend has a 2008 MB that I bought off Ebay, other than the hard drive dying (and giving me ample warning and time to replace first), it's had no problem. Since it's limited to 4GB RAM, it isn't really ideal for development, but she runs Photoshop and Illustrator on it (albeit, a bit slow for my taste).

I personally own a late 2011 MBP (same as the article, I believe) with 8GB RAM, also no problems, running a pretty standard development set up.

I have another 2012 MBP through work which is a bit beefed up, though still nothing fancy. Also no problems. Also manage a couple of 2010 Mac servers there which have been running steady since late 2010.

Oh, and none of these have SSDs. So, say what you will about non-SSD, they work well enough for development.

All in all, have to agree -- whatever fits your budget, at least in my personal experience, will work pretty well. I know that people do certainly have issues with them occasionally, but when I compare my luck with them to my luck with various other brands (Compaq, Dell, etc), they've lasted significantly longer with few or no problems.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#248

Post by WalterBright »

korzun wrote: post #228
WalterBright wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over time, you're probably paying 2x or 3x in insurance premiums compared with what the loss would be. Consider also the overall effect if you invested the premiums instead of paying them.

You can't guarantee 100% expense coverage during random events. Not everybody has thousands of dollars laying around in emergency fund for 12+ months. Committing to an insurance policy is simply a semi-guaranteed safety net. Have tons of cash? You should still probably look at a cheaper plan with a super high deductible.

I'd buy a cheaper computer before one so expensive it would be a fiscal catastrophe if I lost it. Buying a computer on credit is just as bad, might as well just set fire to money.

In fact, my laptop is a $500 one I bought 2 years ago for travel use and didn't want to be too upset if it was lost/broken/stolen.

My previous one was 10 years old and was a bit heavy :-)

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#249

Post by tonyjackson »

slantyyz wrote: post #243
tonyjackson wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats? You have everything you want, and no license to complain when your Macbook overheats and dies I guess. And you also seem to recognize that it will die. As long as you use the right tool for the right job, sure...

Your case would have much more weight if similarly equipped 2012 Macbook Pros with discrete GPUs were failing at the same rate as their 2011 counterparts.

My case is to use the right tool for the job. If you're gaming on a laptop, you're getting a subpar experience anyway. Unless you're also lugging around an additional keyboard, mouse, and headphones. Which makes the whole laptop convenience a moot point. Or are you really arguing 2012 Macbooks don't get hot when gaming? I don't buy that.

Re: Why I Drilled Holes in My MacBook Pro and Put It in the Oven

#250

Post by forrestthewoods »

puckmunch wrote: post #221
forrestthewoods wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the beef against discrete GPUs? Shouldn't the complaint be against cases not properly designed to house them? MacBooks also use, quite frustratingly so, damn near the slowest Nvidia mobile GPU you can buy! A newer model might actually run faster and cooler.

Discrete GPUs are soldered to boards using ball-gate arrays, a technique which was invented with lead solder balls in mind. The patent holder died before the EU mandated non-lead solders. The reason this matters is because the process by which those solder balls are made does not check for the presence of voids in them. At least 10% of these balls (regardless of composition) x-ray as having voids. GPUs go through the…

Whoa, I did not know all that. Very interesting. Thanks!
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