Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz • Hacker News Board

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#71

Post by jowiar » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:34 AM UTC

quesera wrote: post #63

hayksaakian wrote: post #39

to put this in laymans terms: imagine you want to go from city A to city B normally you would search for tickets from A-B however, during your search, you would NOT see tickets that go from A-B-C. why is that relevant? sometimes tickets from A-B-C are cheaper than A-B. so you would buy a ticket (A-B-C) and simply leave the airport of city B (not boarding the B-C flight). the website in question made it easier to find…

I think most people have, at some point, chosen between available flights based on layover city. I know I have. So there's a distinct utility offered, separate from any missed connections. It's very hard for me to imagine a contract that includes "once you get on the plane, you must not miss your connecting flight". Heck, I wish I could get the airlines to say "once you're on the plane, we will make sure your connect…

> It's very hard for me to imagine a contract that includes "once you get on the plane, you must not miss your connecting flight".

Except that it basically says "Thou shalt not buy a ticket with the express intent of missing the connection".

http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pd... (pg. 11)

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#72

Post by bohnej » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:35 AM UTC

I don't understand. These types of websites have existed for a long time. This is nothing new. Most people have found out that hidden-city ticketing doesn't work either on round-trip flights because the airlines will cancel the rest of the trip if they find out. It only works for one-way trips with carry-on bags only.

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#73

Post by razzberryman » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:35 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #47

Pyxl101 wrote: post #44

> “Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical,” according to the letter by American, which isn’t party to the case. “It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores.” What in the world? How is that comparison anywhere near remotely justifiable? Absolutely ridiculous. > American Airli…

Probably the same way folks try to justify selling a DVD that only plays on North American DVD players. Generally people substitute the phrase "it isn't fair when ..." when they meant to say "I don't like it when ..." I expect that the airlines will be unsuccessful in their suit but will get the FAA to approve a fee that would be charged if a passenger did not make the complete flight. In the back rooms they will tel…

> after all its important in an emergency to know who is really on the plane, and people who get off early are putting first responders in harms way as they will go looking for people who aren't actually on the plane

They generally do a new itinerary for each new flight, so they should know that person X isn't on the flight. Now, I can understand that they'd be annoyed if they were holding the plane knowing that person X had arrived at that airport and should be nearby. But, anybody could simply tell the check in desk they won't be flying on that flight (as a courtesy).

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#74

Post by razzberryman » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:38 AM UTC

Pyxl101 wrote: post #44

> “Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical,” according to the letter by American, which isn’t party to the case. “It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores.” What in the world? How is that comparison anywhere near remotely justifiable? Absolutely ridiculous. > American Airli…

Paying for a flight and not boarding is way more ethical than the Airline selling you a seat that doesn't exist (overselling is super common... ever hear them ask for volunteers to take a later flight in exchange for a voucher? That means they sold seats that didn't exist).

Of course, the airline thinks it's fine when it is pulling the switcheroo but they get pissed when you do it back to them. As long as the FAA allows them to oversell flights, they should allow passengers to use hidden city fare discounts... it's only fare.

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#75

Post by micampe » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:38 AM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #39

to put this in laymans terms: imagine you want to go from city A to city B normally you would search for tickets from A-B however, during your search, you would NOT see tickets that go from A-B-C. why is that relevant? sometimes tickets from A-B-C are cheaper than A-B. so you would buy a ticket (A-B-C) and simply leave the airport of city B (not boarding the B-C flight). the website in question made it easier to find…

To be fair, I'm sure the airlines and your fellow travelers would also prefer for you to not waste a seat.

I know I would be pissed if I needed to take a flight but it was fully booked, and then found out that a dozen people already planned to not show up.

I see this trick as not very respectful to other people.

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#76

Post by domdip » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:41 AM UTC

micampe wrote: post #75

hayksaakian wrote: post #39

to put this in laymans terms: imagine you want to go from city A to city B normally you would search for tickets from A-B however, during your search, you would NOT see tickets that go from A-B-C. why is that relevant? sometimes tickets from A-B-C are cheaper than A-B. so you would buy a ticket (A-B-C) and simply leave the airport of city B (not boarding the B-C flight). the website in question made it easier to find…

To be fair, I'm sure the airlines and your fellow travelers would also prefer for you to not waste a seat. I know I would be pissed if I needed to take a flight but it was fully booked, and then found out that a dozen people already planned to not show up. I see this trick as not very respectful to other people.

Is there anything stopping a standby passenger from being given a seat on the second leg?

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#77

Post by balls187 » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:42 AM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #39

to put this in laymans terms: imagine you want to go from city A to city B normally you would search for tickets from A-B however, during your search, you would NOT see tickets that go from A-B-C. why is that relevant? sometimes tickets from A-B-C are cheaper than A-B. so you would buy a ticket (A-B-C) and simply leave the airport of city B (not boarding the B-C flight). the website in question made it easier to find…

Interesting. I was under (perhaps mistakenly) the impression that buying a ticket to A-B-C and stopping at B, would result in being charged for the A-B route instead.

Regardless, I always check my baggage so A-B-C type tickets would not work for me.

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#78

Post by jowiar » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:43 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #57

jamesaguilar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable . . . hrm. Hard to say. The surface area of duties and rights associated with an airline ticket in particular and airline travel in general are so vast that some level of clickwrap is unavoidable, not to mention the various laws that cover the industry. Comparatively, the duties and rights regarding a physical good like a sandwich are fairly simple -- it behaves like most simple physical goods. You buy it,…

I buy a sandwich; I can eat all of it or some of it. I buy airplane seats; I can sit in both seats or just one. If they don't like which seats I chose to sit in or not, they shouldn't have sold the ticket to me in the first place.

They're not really "selling you tickets" on specific flights. They're selling you the service of hauling you from from your starting point to your destination - possibly on the route planned, or possibly on other routes. This includes such things as sending you on another airline, or on a train, or putting you up in a hotel room.

I think the airlines would be willing to ignore a handful of people skipping out on a leg here or there. Pricing is obviously a major issue, but I think even moreso than that, if this were to become a common/well accepted way of buying tickets, there are serious issues in case of cancellations/delays/missed connections that, while fine in the hands of those who know they're subjecting themselves to the risk of being stranded, would lead to a bunch of "I bought a ticket to Chicago and United is going to leave me in Nantucket unless I buy a second ticket" news stories in case of a snowstorm.

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#79

Post by jowiar » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:46 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #22

Can someone explain the harm this causes the airlines? I get there's a bit of an opportunity cost because they'll have an empty seat, but apart from that? I feel there's something more here

I think the failure mode is probably the most serious harm - even more than pricing. What service is the airline contractually / in the court of public opinion obligated to provide you in the case of weather?

Re: Skiplagged sued by United and Orbitz

#80

Post by micampe » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 7:47 AM UTC

domdip wrote: post #76

micampe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I'm sure the airlines and your fellow travelers would also prefer for you to not waste a seat. I know I would be pissed if I needed to take a flight but it was fully booked, and then found out that a dozen people already planned to not show up. I see this trick as not very respectful to other people.

Is there anything stopping a standby passenger from being given a seat on the second leg?

Regulations, probably, but I also don't think you are allowed to randomly walk around the airport looking for empty seats if you don't have a ticket, and if I have a ticket I'm just going to my gate, since if I am at the airport it means my flight is about to leave anyway.