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Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

nim-lang.org

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Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#131

Post by wbhart »

dom96 wrote: post #129
wbhart wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt academic institutions "sponsor" programming languages, other than paying the salary of some of the people who happen to be writing them. Where is Rumpf? MIT? http://web.mit.edu/nimrod-lang/arch/i386_linux26/doc/tutoria...

I'd say that the academic institutions may be paying some of these people to develop Julia. As far as I know, Andreas Rumpf does not work for MIT or any academic institution if that's what you're implying. It is rather curious that the MIT website has a copy of Nim's documentation.

I'm not really implying that. Somewhere or other it says Andreas is working for a top secret startup and is always trying to start his own.

What I'm saying is that it can be misleading how much academic institutions are "behind" academic projects. If you talk to most academics, you'll discover that they believe their academic institutions are doing everything they can to discourage their projects (academics can be somewhat sarcastic).

Some of the Julia core devs are academics and write papers on Julia, yes. Their salaries are paid by those institutions. They may have students who can do some coding for them (so long as they write a thesis too). But being an academic is a very demanding lifestyle. With few exceptions, you are paid to write papers, teach, do administration and apply for grants, not to write code.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#132

Post by wbhart »

wbhart wrote: post #121
def- wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio... > Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by WP:GNG. Every source is WP:PRIMARY. Every one of them. Googling turned up posts to online discussion forums but nothing useful. Additionally, I note that the decision to delete at the previous AfD was unanimous for the same reasons. > Perhaps think of it this way: a lan…

I really dislike this policy when applied to programming languages. Things from pop culture are going to be referred to pervasively in the media and blogosphere, but programming languages don't get there without massive marketing pushes, press releases, etc. That doesn't mean a language is not itself notable. Anyway, there's plenty about Nim that is not primary: http://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/13/here-comes-nim/ https…

I just discovered that blogs and other self published resources may not be used to establish notability for Wikipedia.

Basically Nim cannot ever become notable unless there are press releases about it or peer reviewed papers written on it. And without a company like Google garnering/writing press releases and none of the authors of Nim are at academic institutions... Well this is awkward.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#133

Post by codygman »

ldlework wrote: post #112

As a long time Python programmer who has struggled to cross the gap from dynamic scripting languages to modern statically typed languages Nim is by far the most frictionless language I have tried. Before I found Nim I longed for a language like C# where the generics "just work" and overall the language just feels like it designed at-once rather than piecemeal overtime. Everything just seem really "nice" in C# and I a…

As I've said before: for me Nim seems to be everything I had wished Go was.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#134

Post by dom96 »

wbhart wrote: post #131
dom96 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that the academic institutions may be paying some of these people to develop Julia. As far as I know, Andreas Rumpf does not work for MIT or any academic institution if that's what you're implying. It is rather curious that the MIT website has a copy of Nim's documentation.

I'm not really implying that. Somewhere or other it says Andreas is working for a top secret startup and is always trying to start his own. What I'm saying is that it can be misleading how much academic institutions are "behind" academic projects. If you talk to most academics, you'll discover that they believe their academic institutions are doing everything they can to discourage their projects (academics can be so…

I think it's more likely that a couple of the developers are being paid to write Julia than it is that they are all working on it in their spare time.

While it may be a demanding lifestyle, you are also paid to do research. And research could include developing new programming languages.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#135

Post by codexon »

klibertp wrote: post #36
themartorana wrote: post #9

All the hype on HN seems to be towards Rust and Go (with Go having its share of haters), but Nim sounds particularly interesting as a side-step from Python that runs faster than both Go and Rust. Can anyone give me some insight as to why it's not as hyped, if at all? I'm rather unfamiliar with Nim, and it's seems to have a smaller community, but it feels like it should be getting all sorts of love considering its spe…

Actually it's being hyped that's weird. There are literally dozens of very interesting languages being created and developed right now and I bet you don't know of any of them. The only - and they are very few in comparison - languages which are being hyped since very early in their life cycle are the ones backed by corporations. Both Rust and Go are such languages and that's basically it. "Normal" languages live on a…

Last time I checked Io was slow and it didn't solve any new problems. If I wanted a slow OO language, I would rather keep using ruby/python as I already know them.

Haxe has the small niche of flash type games, and I think it is doing fine in that area. But to expect it to be as popular as a general purpose language is not warranted.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#136

Post by chipsy »

sanxiyn wrote: post #38
chipsy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust and Go have big backers behind them. This generates a feedback loop of hype leading to toy projects and thought leadership, which subsequently turns into real adoption. If weren't for that they would be maturing at about the same rate as Nim.

Adoption is greatly helped by hype, but maturity is something different. Rust and Go have a number of paid developers working full time on the implementation. This helps maturity and is unrelated to hype.

Maturity in the compiler != ecosystem maturity. To pick up the broader mainstream also means external tooling(ide, debugger, etc.), library code, documentation, examples and tutorials, live events like conferences and lectures, and "friends who use it" (critical mass in localized communities)

When you miss some of these elements the barriers to entry go way up and the community is limited to people who can tolerate the environment without it. That's true regardless of how good or proven the base technology is. Hype and institutional use accelerates this cycle by forcing it onto developers - you end up with more people early on who say "yes, i put this into production and i can tell you how it worked."

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#137

Post by eikenberry »

eternalban wrote: post #92
klibertp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's being hyped that's weird. There are literally dozens of very interesting languages being created and developed right now and I bet you don't know of any of them. The only - and they are very few in comparison - languages which are being hyped since very early in their life cycle are the ones backed by corporations. Both Rust and Go are such languages and that's basically it. "Normal" languages live on a…

| Actually it's being hyped that's weird. | The economic realities of software development require disposable human resources.

And this is why most most large software projects fail. Software development is not something 'disposable human resources' can do reliably.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#138

Post by vbit »

finid wrote: post #109
dom96 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason, in my opinion at least, is that Nim does not have a commercial company behind it like Go and Rust who have Google and Mozilla respectively. This in turn means that Nim does not have as many resources (it is developed completely voluntarily in people's spare time) so development is slower.

Yep, that's basically true. If the development of a language like Python started at about this time, I bet it would be in the same position as Nim. But how can you get a major company to get behind Nim when the all want to have their own programming language?

Maybe you can't. But you can get the small companies and individuals first. Slowly the contributions make the ecosystem stronger and bigger and risk-averse organizations then can hop on as well. This is pretty much how Python grew.

Re: Nim (formerly Nimrod) 0.10.2 released

#139

Post by igouy »

daveroberts wrote: post #84
themartorana wrote: post #9

All the hype on HN seems to be towards Rust and Go (with Go having its share of haters), but Nim sounds particularly interesting as a side-step from Python that runs faster than both Go and Rust. Can anyone give me some insight as to why it's not as hyped, if at all? I'm rather unfamiliar with Nim, and it's seems to have a smaller community, but it feels like it should be getting all sorts of love considering its spe…

Go and Rust and included in the Computer Language Benchmark game: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ Nim, and many of the other interesting languages mentioned in this thread are not. I'm not sure if this is a cause or effect.

Too many programming languages, too little time; and no one seems willing to make and publish measurements for all those "interesting" languages.

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#languagex

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