Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 221 posts

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#201

Post by zapt02 »

imanaccount247 wrote: post #191
zapt02 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing sanitization functions 10 years ago is broken to you? If you check my earlier post you'll see that prepared statements are widely used nowadays. Escaping functions like htmlentities() are also still effective. You are right, there are a bunch of hosting company providing 0-config PHP, but setting it up in any distro is also never more than one command away, unlike the other languages mentioned. Regarding Ru…

>but setting it up in any distro is also never more than one command away, unlike the other languages mentioned. No, exactly like the other languages mentioned. If you are seriously going to try to pretend installing python or ruby or perl is harder than installing PHP then you can't expect anyone to react as if you are being serious and genuine. >I can't even find a tutorial on how to run Ruby under FastCGI That sou…

Since you are resorting to ad hominem attacks without tackling the actual points, I am not going to dignify your post with an answer.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#202

Post by stared »

codygman wrote: post #158
stared wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Links or it didn't happen. I don't imply that nobody uses it for solving practical problems. Just, I made my judgement based on: - friends (I know, it may be biased), - GitHub codes I use (and in general, popularity), - blog posts on Haskell (I encounter mostly language-oriented; less problem-oriented like "let's make a 3d game", "web scraping", "machine learning", "web dev" etc).

If I took time to link to each one of those would it change your opinion any?

Likely. Ideally with code tutorials/examples rather than "me and my friends changed X to Haskell and we liked it".

I mean, it's not I am anti-Haskell or something (it is clearly on my list things to learn), and I am theoretically-inclined (I did quantum physics and pure mathematics). Moreover, I am biased towards clever, succinct solutions rather that horrible code that "just works, somehow".

Yet, for practical problems I do things that work, even if it is JavaScript code, which is not even close to "pure" or "nice".

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#203

Post by tome »

virtualwhys wrote: post #94
MaxGabriel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know alot of Haskell programmers? Because I'm enjoying my typesafe SQL queries, typesafe intra-application linking, typesafe templating, etc. Haskell is capable of far more than "pure, mathematical problems"—indeed, typed IO is a premier feature of the language. edit: sorry, this was pretty defensive; I shouldn't have written this comment so hastily.

You know, C#/F# programmers are enjoying most of the above in spades, and the libraries are fully vetted and mature to boot; could say the same for Scala to some degree. Can we say the same for Haskell? Let's take a sample: you say, "I'm enjoying my typesafe SQL queries" There are 2 Haskell query DSLs worth talking about (read: that support joins): Esqueleto and OpalEye. The latter is fresh off the presses and not ye…

> Esqueleto and OpalEye. The latter is fresh off the presses and not yet ready for prime time (see the "ideal sql" samples interspersed with the performance killing actual sql)

On the contrary, Opaleye (lowercase "e") has been used in production to run multiple-hundred line queries with high performance. I gave the "idealized SQL" examples in the docs as a way of making the generated code easier to understand for readers, not to suggest that there is any performance loss. If you know of an example where the code generation leads to a performance loss in Postgres I would be interested to hear about it.

(An aside: Esqueleto isn't anywhere close to typesafe, nor does the author claim this is one of its goals. It is trivial to produce crashing queries: https://github.com/prowdsponsor/esqueleto/issues/41)

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#204

Post by imanaccount247 »

zapt02 wrote: post #201
imanaccount247 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but setting it up in any distro is also never more than one command away, unlike the other languages mentioned. No, exactly like the other languages mentioned. If you are seriously going to try to pretend installing python or ruby or perl is harder than installing PHP then you can't expect anyone to react as if you are being serious and genuine. >I can't even find a tutorial on how to run Ruby under FastCGI That sou…

Since you are resorting to ad hominem attacks without tackling the actual points, I am not going to dignify your post with an answer.

"Ad hominem" is not something you just say whenever you dislike what someone said and poof, you magically win an argument.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#205

Post by imanaccount247 »

RivieraKid wrote: post #199
imanaccount247 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am suggesting that your confidence is misplaced. Having little experience in something means you should have little confidence in your knowledge of that thing.

> Having little experience in something means you should have little confidence in your knowledge of that thing. Not always true, sometimes you can have a fairly good picture of something after a short time.

You aren't even responding to the words you quoted. Read it carefully. With little experience, you have no way to know if your impression is accurate or not. So your confidence in your knowledge should be low. And this is of course pretending you have very little experience, when in fact you have absolutely none and are repeating the same worn out tired old FUD that tricked me into not using haskell 8 years ago.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#206

Post by imanaccount247 »

stared wrote: post #202
codygman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I took time to link to each one of those would it change your opinion any?

Likely. Ideally with code tutorials/examples rather than "me and my friends changed X to Haskell and we liked it". I mean, it's not I am anti-Haskell or something (it is clearly on my list things to learn), and I am theoretically-inclined (I did quantum physics and pure mathematics). Moreover, I am biased towards clever, succinct solutions rather that horrible code that "just works, somehow". Yet, for practical probl…

"I'm not anti-Haskell, I just lie about it on the internet repeating tired old FUD that anyone who has ever tried it would instantly recognize is BS".

Haskell is a general purpose language. It is used for practical problems. I don't know of a problem that is "pure" or "nice". The reason I am so harsh in response to this nonsense is because it fucked me over already. People have been repeating this crap for years, and I was one of the unfortunate people who fell for it. And then after a couple years of using scala instead because it is "practical" I realized that the "practical" stuff is impractical and the source of most of my errors and problems. So I actually tried haskell, and realized all the FUD was total nonsense and that there's nothing impractical about haskell at all. I did not like that I had wasted 2-3 years because of liars, and people who blindly repeat those lies because they like the sound of them.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#207

Post by coldtea »

saosebastiao wrote: post #83
jbeja wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery and Javascript Promises comes to mind, I know they started in C++ put they are practically Monads.

Since when did monads become a synonym for Haskell?

Since 2000 tutorials emphasizing them as the gist of Haskell programming...

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#208

Post by coldtea »

yawboakye wrote: post #44
coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the common rebuttal of PHP jokes - but pointing to a sole outlier is rarely a solid defense. Sole outlier? Hardly. Half of the web is powered by PHP, including tons of websites with huge traffic and usage. > Especially when they have created Hack[1] and HHVM[2]. So it's not entirely accurate to say they "use PHP." Hack and HHVM do not show some inherent PHP issue that something like Ruby or Python would not…

> Half of the web is powered by PHP, including tons of websites with huge traffic and usage. What powers the web: web servers or web sites/applications? If it's web servers then your claim that half of the web is powered by PHP is false because I'm—and I'm going to be honest here—yet to see/use a web server written in PHP.

Obviously web sites/applications.

Web servers would just server static sets of pages without some means to run dynamic code.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#210

Post by coldtea »

dllthomas wrote: post #170
codygman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm productive in Haskell and I don't know category theory. I didn't "learn" monads specifically, I used them in my projects and gained an intuition for monads followed by memorizing the 3 monad laws.

What distinction are you making between "learning monads" and "gaining an intuition for monads and memorizing the 3 monad laws"?

The distinction that memorizing 3 simple rules is not exactly a deep understanding of category theory.
Post reply on HN