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Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

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Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#161

Post by hrktb »

bad_user wrote: post #141
moca wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among major companies, Apple did a better job with supporting old devices. Google Nexus devices become completely out of date after 2 years (too slow to run latest software, and too hard to get hardware repair support). Software wise, Apple could have done a better job as the newer version of iOS is indeed bloated and doesn't run well on old devices. On the other side, Microsoft did great job on supporting Windows XP…

My Nexus 4 (released Nov 2012) has officially received the Lollipop upgrade and is working very well. I barely have reasons to replace it. Apple does indeed a better job at supporting older devices, however new iOS releases are basically unusable on devices older than 2 years. I have for example a 2-year old iPad 3 and iOS 8 is usable on it, but for iPhone 4S or IPad 2 the upgrade turned usable devices into unusable…

Bduerst also mentionned updates that "almost bricked" his phone. I think the standards for "almost bricked" and "unusable" are incredibly low in this comment section.

I still have an iPhone4S in a drawer; it's visibly slower than when it was under iOS6 and even compared to a 5S it's night and day, but compared to other middle range android phones that's still decent. Side to side with a Moto G for instance, it's basically the same reactivity, but no one would call the Moto G an unusable device.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#162

Post by colechristensen »

mbesto wrote: post #138
colechristensen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary reason Microsoft ever attained and kept its business is backwards and broad compatibility.

Only difference now is the rate of new technology adoption is 10x what it used to be.

The difference is that the browser is now the center of computing for most people; things are thrown away quickly if they're not actively updated and 20 year old web pages render (mostly) just fine. Compatibility for an OS isn't needed near as much for most people most of the time only need an OS to launch a web browser. Hence Chrome OS.

There's a reason Windows XP has stuck around for so long... most people don't need anything beyond XP. Sure they need security updates and new drivers, but these things are in the background. XP had, essentially, everything anybody will need for the next 50 years.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#163

Post by cpks »

oceanstone wrote: post #159
sgnelson wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The saying used to be that something was designed for obsolescence. I no longer believe that's the case, I believe new devices are programmed for obsolescence. That is to say, the device used to work, but with new "updates," the device becomes more decrepit, and less useful, not better and more useful. I've had Apple devices that worked fine until the "update" (which was mainly targeted at the latest and greatest, no…

> I don't recall which software update it was, but my iPhone 3g was a great example of this. Do you recall if it was a major or minor update?

For me, latest iOS+older iPad completely killed it. It was the last major upgrade, which added the animations. My iPad was the first gen with retina, and the animations were slow and jerky. I eventually enabled some accessibility mode which killed them, but other aspects of the user experience are less than stellar. Wifi is now intermittent.

My Nexus 4 is growing a little decrepit, but not nearly as bad. I was considering a Sony, but they seem to lag on support for newer OSes as well, so now I'm thinking about a newer Nexus, but I'm really not sure.

My new litmus test is to look at 2-5 year old devices from the brand, and see how they work before buying a new one.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#164

Post by bloaf »

gst wrote: post #16
gcb0 wrote: post #3

all my bugs from android 2.3 (still heavily used in the us and out) up to android 4.2 were closed as obsolete. several are somewhat fixed on 5.0 (most by removing the feature) but nothing about support even nexus devices from 2.5 years ago. 3 were security ones confirmed by a few comments. I've been getting obsolete emails on my low profile bugs since November all the way to Dec 25... Google just gave up. i think nob…

The last device sold by Google that now runs an Android release of 4.2 or earlier was (afaik) the Nexus S - which was released in 2010. I think it's reasonable to stop support for a particular device after something like 4 years. Yes, there are other 3rd party manufacturers that sold devices based on such outdated versions up until recently. But why should it be Google's task to provide updates for these devices? Tha…

I believe the Google TV platform uses 4.2.2 or earlier (i.e. 3.2) Those devices are still on the market, and it may technically be the manufacturers' responsibility to upgrade, but none of them have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_TV#Second_Generation

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#165

Post by lnanek2 »

It's unfortunate, but Google pretty much ignores most outside bug reports and a bot marks them obsolete automatically. Rather than improving things, the situation has actually gotten worse and worse over the years and they started adding tags to prevent people from commenting. Even if Google rarely fixed things the comments were often pretty good for working together with other developers to come up with work arounds.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#166

Post by ksk »

Bud wrote: post #85
ksk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people complain is because iOS updates are a horrible kind of bait and switch. You update the OS because you think its awesome, but are unable to downgrade when you find that in reality, its slow and bloated. The most infuriating thing in all of this is that my iPhone 4S is STILL a fast device. The CPU hasn't shrunk since the time I bought it. Apple has decided that I am unworthy of restoring my phone to t…

Most of the criticisms of brand-new OS updates being "slow and bloated" are from extremely impatient users (or professional clickbait critics) who don't even have the good sense to wait a few hours or a day or two for the processes that can make major upgrades a bit sluggish on ALL devices to complete, such as rebuilding databases, the fact that OS updates often result in dozens or even hundreds of app updates that h…

>There's now more than enough history out there for users to know that if you install major iOS updates, you cannot easily downgrade.

Certainly, that is your version of reality. Only a small minority of users have any clue about downgrading.

>I don't think it's a valid comment, or a comment made in good faith, to say that iOS updates are a "bait and switch".

>that Apple supports its older devices MUCH better and for much longer than any competitor.

Well, it depends on your viewpoint. How can you 'support' a device by incrementally making it slower with each passing release? If all they were releasing was bug fixes and patches, and features which didn't adversely impact performance then YES I would agree with you. Or hell, I'd even agree with you with the current situation if Apple allowed downgrades.

Seriously, I mean don't you think its totally messed up that Apple has to give its permission before you're able to downgrade the OS to speed it up when its their own update that slowed it down ? Its ridiculous and should not be accepted as the norm.

> you cannot easily downgrade. (It's not impossible, it's just a huge pain.)

Cool, please point the entire world to a working bootrom exploit for the 4s. We've been waiting for a while :)

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#167

Post by allendoerfer »

maccard wrote: post #149
allendoerfer wrote: post #61

Enterprises are able to pay huge maintenance fees. Single consumers are not and game theory teaches us, that they are unable to unite to get it (free rider problem). So I fear, that we need stronger consumer protection for software products. I do not know the situation in the US, but in the EU we have a mandated 2 year warranty for almost every product with very few sensible exceptions (food and the like). We need th…

> Related to that, double or triple the warranty periods. I'm not convinced that this solves anything. When you buy a 50 euro/dollar vacuum do you expect it to have the same life expectancy as the 500 dollar vacuum made with higher quality parts? If the company is required to provide a 6 year warranty for a machine that they estimate to last 2 years, they will simply stop producing the cheaper vacuums, meaning everyo…

Valid point. Several things apply:

You have to adjust the price for the cheap vacuum cleaner in your mind. You are actually talking about several of them, because of their reduced lifetime.

Prices do not necessarily reflect the actual costs of the product directly sometimes not even remotely. Printers or game consoles for example are hardly or not at all profitable. The main purpose of prices is to differentiate the product classes, otherwise it would be harder to tell, which one actually is the higher class product. So that part of the pricing would not move at all.

Economics of scale. The higher quality parts will be produced in greater mass and become cheaper.

Innovation. If there is a need for cheaper vacuums, somebody will eventually find a way to build one.

Finally, the main point: Planned obsolescence [0]. Products are actually designed to break directly after the 2 year guarantee. One could argue, that designing costs would actually fall, due to the obsolete step.

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#168

Post by bduerst »

hrktb wrote: post #157
bduerst wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple did a better job with supporting old devices. Am I the only one who had the last iPhone 3 iOS update? It almost bricked the damn phone, making the interface impossibly slow.

What's your point of comparison regarding to android devices ? I had an iPhone 3G that I updated all the way up. And I also had a LG L7 bought new under android 4. I found the iPhone 3G more reactive and usable in every single aspect.

Why does it need to be a false dichotomy/comparison between Android and Apple?

The Apple phone I had became nigh unusable with a forced update. It's not contextual frame of reference - it just didn't work.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#169

Post by arihant »

fpgeek wrote: post #118
iamcreasy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every part of the world changes at the same pace. There are places where a device running Android 4.2 are the best one on the market. That being said, its extremely frustrating to see this happening.

> There are places where a device running Android 4.2 are the best one on the market. Where? With the possible exception of China [1], after the Moto G and Android One, I'd expect that you could get a KitKat (or better) entry-level device pretty much anywhere. [1] where there are entry-level KitKat devices, I'm just not sure of their quality since some major entry-level manufactureres (e.g. Xiaomi) are still on 4.2,…

Almost all Xiaomi, OnePlus, Gionee, Oppo phones are running KitKat.

Xiaomi is running 4.3 on their cheapest device which would be the last device to get KitKat this month. Almost all their devices are running KitKat for a long time and they had released an unofficial testing ROM for 5.0 a week after the code was pushed. Xiaomi phones do come with Google services. Their flagship devices are expected a 5.0 early 2015. I would say they move faster than most brands.

I went from iPhone to their $100 model and find almost nothing that I could do before that I now cannot. Even in terms of performance and polish. Actually I can do slightly more thanks to Android Wear, but Xiaomi has less to do with that.

Re: Many Android bugs with 500+ stars closed as obsolete on December 25

#170

Post by tluyben2 »

LunaSea wrote: post #115
Bud wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the criticisms of brand-new OS updates being "slow and bloated" are from extremely impatient users (or professional clickbait critics) who don't even have the good sense to wait a few hours or a day or two for the processes that can make major upgrades a bit sluggish on ALL devices to complete, such as rebuilding databases, the fact that OS updates often result in dozens or even hundreds of app updates that h…

With updates like Yosemite you now get a almost daily crash thanks to Apple. Maverick was perfectly fine.

On old hardware right? No crashes so far here on a new air.
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