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Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

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Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#71

Post by cmdkeen »

iSloth wrote: post #62

Really don't understand the pure hatred that people have for PHP, I'm at network engineer and I don't have any desire to become a programmer because I love my job, however I've wrote some very useful applications that myself and my team use on a daily basis to make networking easier for us. For me it was simple to learn PHP and create something 'useful', basically every web server is capable of running it which makes…

This rant (not by me) explains why[1]. PHP is full of gotchas, things that make security hard, and areas that are likely to break and be really hard to debug.

There's definitely scope out there for a better effort to be made addressing the situation you raise, but PHP really shouldn't be the popular language that is is in that space.

[1]: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#72

Post by phamilton »

melling wrote: post #5
hexaust wrote: post #3

Add ruby and c#

How about C# vs F#? Both have great support. You'd think if people were 2x-3x more productive in a functional language, you'd get a lot of developers moving from C# to F# because both have excellent support from Microsoft.

"support from Microsoft"

I know a few Microsoft employees who got in trouble for using F# internally.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#74

Post by xasos »

cmdkeen wrote: post #71
iSloth wrote: post #62

Really don't understand the pure hatred that people have for PHP, I'm at network engineer and I don't have any desire to become a programmer because I love my job, however I've wrote some very useful applications that myself and my team use on a daily basis to make networking easier for us. For me it was simple to learn PHP and create something 'useful', basically every web server is capable of running it which makes…

This rant (not by me) explains why[1]. PHP is full of gotchas, things that make security hard, and areas that are likely to break and be really hard to debug. There's definitely scope out there for a better effort to be made addressing the situation you raise, but PHP really shouldn't be the popular language that is is in that space. [1]: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

Sure it may be a fractal of bad design, but it's unfair to say it has no productivity value. You can write plenty good PHP code that actually accomplishes things. (And this is coming from someone that hates PHP)

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#75

Post by vdaniuk »

xrstf wrote: post #69

Oh wow lel so funny, 10/10, pease make more PHP jokes, they are so super funny. And you are right, too! Not a single PHP developer was ever productive and shipped a product. None. Never. And especially PHP devs walk around and proclaim "We are the elite! Our language makes coding fun and hip!!!!" all the time.

Actually, right in these comments PHP programmers proclaim how productive they are, how PHP powers half the web and how Haskellers haven't done anything practical.

So it seems your sarcastic rant completely misses the mark.

Disclaimer: not a haskell, nor a php programmer.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#77

Post by rimantas »

coldtea wrote: post #37
solox3 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides that list-dict array implementation, it really hasn't much left going for it.

Well, it has closures, interfaces, dead easy reflection, traits, namespaces, etc etc, speaks to tons of systems, includes tons of batteries, has a great dependency manager, is dead easy to deploy, has a huge ecosystem and good tooling, etc.

My impression is that most of those who badmouth PHP never bothered to find out what has changed since 4.x days.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#78

Post by MaxGabriel »

hueving wrote: post #61
MaxGabriel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know alot of Haskell programmers? Because I'm enjoying my typesafe SQL queries, typesafe intra-application linking, typesafe templating, etc. Haskell is capable of far more than "pure, mathematical problems"—indeed, typed IO is a premier feature of the language. edit: sorry, this was pretty defensive; I shouldn't have written this comment so hastily.

Do you get anything done with it?

We don't use it at work so I can't say I've done anything at scale, but I was very happy with it making this internal-ish website for work http://heyzaphackday.com/hackdays

I don't think I had a single 5xx or 404 when developing it, and last I checked 1 500 error in production. I know it's a small site, but it's still pretty unlikely that I'd make a small Rails site without typoing something/misremembering a SQL column name/making a bad assumption about e.g. always getting a value from a cookie.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#79

Post by reledi »

notacoward wrote: post #49
salafy wrote: post #2

What about ruby ?

I think the fact that Ruby didn't even make the list tells a lot about how far it has fallen in terms of mindshare. I have nothing against Ruby, its people or its ecosystem, but it's beginning to seem like a bit of a flash in the pan.

Really? I've had the opposite experience. Maybe it's just the type of communities I hang around, but Ruby seems to have a lot of mindshare right now.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#80

Post by jbeja »

RivieraKid wrote: post #57
balloot wrote: post #26

I am increasingly convinced that Haskell only exists so that people who know it can pat themselves on the back for being wonderful.

Yeah, I've got a similar impression. The only 2 things I care about are 1) productivity (time to finish a task) 2) how pleasurable is it to use a language. And I just don't find Haskell (or Lisp) to be as productive as many would suggest, even if you adjust for matureness of the ecosystem. (Note: I have a moderate experience with Lisp, very little experience with Haskell and these days mostly program in Java, Julia a…

"I have a moderate experience with Lisp, very little experience with Haskell and these days mostly program in Java, Julia and Python"

I despise that people give their 2 cents for something they haven't experienced much.

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