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Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

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Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#51

Post by scribu »

coldtea wrote: post #29
balloot wrote: post #26

I am increasingly convinced that Haskell only exists so that people who know it can pat themselves on the back for being wonderful.

With the exception of pandoc, I don't recall seeing anything particularly impressive from the Haskell camp. (Btw, this, actual stuff people use, is how I measure programming languages -- this metric takes into account communities, libraries, practical issues, etc all together, and ties them with practical results. It's my version of "let the market decide").

I think you're forgetting QuickCheck, which has been ported to many other languages.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#52

Post by jbeja »

jeremiep wrote: post #39
coldtea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of pandoc, I don't recall seeing anything particularly impressive from the Haskell camp. (Btw, this, actual stuff people use, is how I measure programming languages -- this metric takes into account communities, libraries, practical issues, etc all together, and ties them with practical results. It's my version of "let the market decide").

xmonad also comes to mind. But you're talking more about products than programming languages. Haskell contributed a LOT to programming theory. Your every day coding is most likely using things coming directly from Haskell without you knowing it.

jQuery and Javascript Promises comes to mind, I know they started in C++ put they are practically Monads.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#54

Post by mempko »

cageface wrote: post #38
coldtea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of pandoc, I don't recall seeing anything particularly impressive from the Haskell camp. (Btw, this, actual stuff people use, is how I measure programming languages -- this metric takes into account communities, libraries, practical issues, etc all together, and ties them with practical results. It's my version of "let the market decide").

Darcs used to be the poster child for Haskell but then somebody came along and wrote a much better DVCS in C, of all languages. Draw your own conclusions...

Still use darcs to this day. Darcs is magical AND productive. I use a script to play back my darcs commits into a git repo so i can put my projects on github. I love you darcs, I love you.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#55

Post by jbeja »

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #43
balloot wrote: post #26

I am increasingly convinced that Haskell only exists so that people who know it can pat themselves on the back for being wonderful.

What are you talking about? Haskell has done a wonderful job at teaching people how to use Haskell. This is a feat in and of itself.

Maybe relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrKj4hYic5A

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#56

Post by donatj »

coldtea wrote: post #10

He wanted to make a cheap joke, but PHP should be the opposite: productivity is rather high, while self-assesment is low.

As a primarily PHP developer, we get told all the time at conferences and places like this how awful we are. I actually wrote a fairly popular post not too long ago about a Haskell speaker being actively hostile against PHP developers. Our mantra has become "I can't hear you over all this work I'm getting done" I've worked in many other languages and nothing really compares for how quick I can knock something out in PHP that does exactly what I want. The code probably won't win any beauty pagents but the client doesn't care. Anyway came here to say the PHP chart is backwards. We hate ourselves but are super productive.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#57

Post by RivieraKid »

balloot wrote: post #26

I am increasingly convinced that Haskell only exists so that people who know it can pat themselves on the back for being wonderful.

Yeah, I've got a similar impression. The only 2 things I care about are 1) productivity (time to finish a task) 2) how pleasurable is it to use a language.

And I just don't find Haskell (or Lisp) to be as productive as many would suggest, even if you adjust for matureness of the ecosystem. (Note: I have a moderate experience with Lisp, very little experience with Haskell and these days mostly program in Java, Julia and Python.)

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#58

Post by donatj »

frostmatthew wrote: post #14
raverbashing wrote: post #8

Decorators are more than simple syntactic sugar in Python ;) It seems overly critical, but still funny (the Haskell one is probably the most spot on) And after all, Facebook uses PHP and MySql

> Facebook uses PHP This is the common rebuttal of PHP jokes - but pointing to a sole outlier is rarely a solid defense. Especially when they have created Hack[1] and HHVM[2]. So it's not entirely accurate to say they "use PHP." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(programming_language) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_Virtual_Machine

Lol, Wikipedia which you linked to is PHP. Roughly half the web runs on Wordpress for crying out loud.

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#59

Post by frostmatthew »

aikah wrote: post #19
frostmatthew wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook uses PHP This is the common rebuttal of PHP jokes - but pointing to a sole outlier is rarely a solid defense. Especially when they have created Hack[1] and HHVM[2]. So it's not entirely accurate to say they "use PHP." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(programming_language) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_Virtual_Machine

HHVM language is PHP,Hack is a spinoff of PHP. So yeah,they basically use PHP. HHVM is a different implementation,while Hack is a superset. Now why,with the tons of money they have,they chosed to stick with it,I dont know. But it's 100% accurate to say they have some PHP code powering their website. But I bet they have as much java code deployed,and next to none haskell.

> Hack is a spinoff of PHP. So yeah,they basically use PHP.

That's like saying applications written in C++ are "basically C" or Groovy is "basically Java."

Re: Learning Curves for Different Programming Languages

#60

Post by cstrahan »

yawboakye wrote: post #44
coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the common rebuttal of PHP jokes - but pointing to a sole outlier is rarely a solid defense. Sole outlier? Hardly. Half of the web is powered by PHP, including tons of websites with huge traffic and usage. > Especially when they have created Hack[1] and HHVM[2]. So it's not entirely accurate to say they "use PHP." Hack and HHVM do not show some inherent PHP issue that something like Ruby or Python would not…

> Half of the web is powered by PHP, including tons of websites with huge traffic and usage. What powers the web: web servers or web sites/applications? If it's web servers then your claim that half of the web is powered by PHP is false because I'm—and I'm going to be honest here—yet to see/use a web server written in PHP.

I don't think that's a fair interpretation of what was meant by that quote. I think the point was that PHP has been used to great effect, regardless of what shortcoming it may have.
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