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The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

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Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#11

Post by bpchaps »

lexicalscope wrote: post #5

I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar disorder is. I have bipolar (II), so here's some things: Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and n…

Thank you for this. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2 about a week ago. It's a very odd thing to experience a life of being "different" without explanation, then suddenly a thousand pieces come together. I feel refreshed and vindicated now that I know the reason.

When I'm in my highs, I feel like I can accomplish anything, and sometimes actually do. But like you say, that can come to a crash in an instant. Reading? Forget about it... unless you're in your high. Studying? Same. Relationships? You bet.

As sad as that it sounds, there's definitely some good to it. I feel that my sense of "self" is exaggerated.. in a hugely positive way that doesn't affect my ego in a negative way. Someone once explained to me that those with bipolar are able to achieve "self mastery" easier - if they're able to overcome the negatives of the disorder.

If I were to live another life and choose whether to have it or not, I'm fairly positive I would want to have it. Then again, I'm in a great mood right now. Go figure. ;)

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#12

Post by comrh »

lexicalscope wrote: post #5

I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar disorder is. I have bipolar (II), so here's some things: Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and n…

Same here. The most common definition I've seen is bipolar I requires one manic period requiring hospitalization. For me the II form means a whole lot of shitty decisions.

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#14

Post by javert »

lexicalscope wrote: post #8
javert wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your description of bipolar to be interesting, so thanks. It wasn't clear to me that the author actually meant "bipolar" in the medical sense. I think he meant something else, and it was just a convenient, but perhaps confusing, term.

No worries, and I do get that, and I'm not furious about it or anything like that. I will say though, it's frustrating when you suffer from this condition to have it characterized in this way, as an adjective, in the same way I imagine it's frustrating for people that actually have Asperger's to hear that thrown around as much as it is now. That said, I can deal with my frustration, what actually worries me is that a…

I agree. I'm surprised the author hasn't edited the essay to something more appropriate after all these years. (It's a pretty well-known essay.)

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#16

Post by jrapdx3 »

I liked this article quite a bit, as I love to program in Lisp (well, Scheme) and I'm a clinician with a lot of experience treating bipolar disorder. That is, the real bipolar, which isn't what the author is talking about.

The kind of behavior referred to in the article is certainly common. I've know many people who show this "crash and burn" pattern. Easily bored, distractible, procrastinators to the end. Black and white, all or none is their theme. Very good or lousy at any given task, usually performance varies randomly, that being a source of consternation for all involved. The unpredictability and inconsistency are vexing and corrosive in nearly all domains of life.

They may be subject to moodiness, reacting strongly to criticism, and may blow up disproportionately. Such individuals may become truly depressed but that's not usual. Rather they suffer profound discouragement when things get hard and overwhelming, a state that's almost inevitable, if transient, like thunderstorms propagating flash floods of high drama and rapid dissipation.

It's a condition that often responds to treatment, the right kinds of counseling, in some cases carefully applied medication therapies are useful. The college-age students who are flailing around struggling to gain traction often respond the best to proper guidance and approaches.

The professor observes correctly the tremendous suffering and waste of talent that occurs. What's important is to see it for what it is and having seen it doing the things that can heal it, in the end giving no cause for pessimism at all.

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#17

Post by Argorak »

iopq wrote: post #3

It's not bipolar, I understand those are the symptoms of ADD. Bored with everything, very high threshold for enjoyment or interest, but getting quickly bored with that same thing.

This is also not ADD. ADD is, among a few other things, a deficiency to guide ones concentration. Hyperfocus and repeated Hyperfocus for things you like is actually a sign of ADD. ADD people can very well do things they enjoy repeatedly and often.

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#18

Post by lol123456 »

pdonis wrote: post #2

Priceless quote: "Writing in C is like building a mosaic out of lentils using a tweezer and glue." That alone makes the article worth the read in my book. :-)

Lisp is a failure.

It failed to deliver a usable Operating System within a budget. It failed to deliver AI with even the intelligence of a donkey. It failed to deliver an efficient IDE. It failed to deliver a serialization format for the industry to use. It failed to deliver a fast interpreter for high performance applications like Games. It failed to deliver a usable framework for Web Applications for 20 years. It failed to deliver package management for libraries.

If the History of Lisp is to teach us anything is that the unity of data and code is not a prerequisite to write useful applications.

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#19

Post by Argorak »

waterhouse wrote: post #7
lexicalscope wrote: post #5

I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar disorder is. I have bipolar (II), so here's some things: Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and n…

> Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer See also Jamie Zawinski's "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers": http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html

I may read it wrong, but that's quite an insult for people that do _actually_ have an attention deficit disorder.

Re: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer

#20

Post by coldtea »

Argorak wrote: post #17
iopq wrote: post #3

It's not bipolar, I understand those are the symptoms of ADD. Bored with everything, very high threshold for enjoyment or interest, but getting quickly bored with that same thing.

This is also not ADD. ADD is, among a few other things, a deficiency to guide ones concentration. Hyperfocus and repeated Hyperfocus for things you like is actually a sign of ADD. ADD people can very well do things they enjoy repeatedly and often.

It's also not something to fret over. A lot of those monikers, like ADD are thrown around with a cavalier, throw-caution-to-the-wind attitude. And I mean by doctors.

Some of so-called "diseases" are actually natural responses to messed up situations (like a boring to hell school environment for a smart kid), and mostly stick as medical fads (tons of them in previous decades that are dead and burried now) and because subscribing drugs pays well.

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