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Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

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Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that the meaning was lost in translation?

That's a very common argument, indeed. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus >The word "virgin" in Christian translations is disputed. The Hebrew word is "עלמה" (almah), which scholars agree means a young woman of child-bearing age, "but has nothing to do with whether she is a virgin", and the context of the passage makes it clear that Isaiah has in mind events in his and Ahaz's near future. Th…

I am actually not sure that the author of Matthew wrote in Greek. While we may not know the original language in which the gospel of Matthew is written, it is written for a Jewish audience and seems to be one of the most colorful, with e.g. many dead saints coming back to life, begging the question of why no one else bothered to write about this stuff. In any event, if this did indeed happen then it's another example of something that doesn't fit our worldview today that nevertheless can take place, like black swans and freak waves.

On a related note, the Hebrew word for "wife" and "woman" are the same. And the same is true of Greek. So quotes of Jesus such as http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-28.htm are probably mistranslated, since it doesn't make sense that two unmarried people can commit adultery, so it's likely that the original word was "wife". And yet because of these translations so many young people's sexual desires were repressed so that they might not look lustfully at any woman, married or not. Whenever I ask other Christians about this kind of stuff, they never seem to have a good answer but continue to insist that it should be "woman", and that young men should still not look with lust at any woman.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#22
post #14

Relevant Wikipedia quote [1] about New Mexico whiptail lizards: An interesting aspect to reproduction in these asexual lizards is that mating behaviors are still seen, although the populations are all female. One female plays the role played by the male in closely related species, and mounts the female that is about to lay eggs. This behaviour is due to the hormonal cycles of the females, which cause them to behave l…

It's hilarious when you think about it. It's effectively mating via dry hump.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#23
post #14

Relevant Wikipedia quote [1] about New Mexico whiptail lizards: An interesting aspect to reproduction in these asexual lizards is that mating behaviors are still seen, although the populations are all female. One female plays the role played by the male in closely related species, and mounts the female that is about to lay eggs. This behaviour is due to the hormonal cycles of the females, which cause them to behave l…

The way to tell if a cow is in heat, is when she stands still while other cows mount her in the same fashion a bull would. It isn't odd that very important behavior is at least partially determined by genes found on the other chromosomes.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#24

I recall Josh McDowell citing the virgin birth as one of the defining reasons for believing Christ was the son of God. I quite enjoyed Christopher Hitchens' take on Parthenogenesis: "Even if I grant you that, you still have all your work ahead of you to prove that he was divine." Things like this add to that workload. Fascinating and festive and very HN.

The Hebrew word for young girl was very close to the word virgin, there was only a subtle difference in the spelling.

The Hebrew word for young girl was very close to the word virgin, there was only a subtle difference in the spelling.

Sorry, but this simply isn't so.

עַלמָה -- 'almah -- is the Hebrew word for young girl in Isaiah. (The corresponding male term is עֶלֶם -- 'elem.)

בְּתוּלָה -- betulah -- is the Hebrew word for virgin. (There is no corresponding male term.)

Note that, aside from the feminine ah ending (i.e. the last consonant and the vowel under the next-to-last consonant), they don't look, or sound, alike at all and, semantically, their roots are totally different.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hebrew word for young girl was very close to the word virgin, there was only a subtle difference in the spelling.

The Hebrew word for young girl was very close to the word virgin, there was only a subtle difference in the spelling. Sorry, but this simply isn't so. עַלמָה -- 'almah -- is the Hebrew word for young girl in Isaiah. (The corresponding male term is עֶלֶם -- 'elem .) בְּתוּלָה -- betulah -- is the Hebrew word for virgin. (There is no corresponding male term.) Note that, aside from the feminine ah ending (i.e. the last…

Correct. The problem isn't with Hebrew, but Greek.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His main argument was actually the Lord Liar Lunatic one, where you need to prescribe one of those descriptions to him (He argues).

That argument came from C.S. Lewis, and the primary counter I know is that it assumes "lunatic" is a binary condition -- someone is either delusional or not. We, today, know that this isn't the case. There are people who have truly bizarre beliefs that don't otherwise hinder logical functioning.

[deleted]

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#27
post #10

I recall Josh McDowell citing the virgin birth as one of the defining reasons for believing Christ was the son of God. I quite enjoyed Christopher Hitchens' take on Parthenogenesis: "Even if I grant you that, you still have all your work ahead of you to prove that he was divine." Things like this add to that workload. Fascinating and festive and very HN.

His main argument was actually the Lord Liar Lunatic one, where you need to prescribe one of those descriptions to him (He argues).

The 4th alliterative option is 'Legend'.

Lord, Liar, Lunatic, Legend

Lunatic and Legend are far far far more likely options, which require no appeal to supernatural claims.

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#28
post #14

Relevant Wikipedia quote [1] about New Mexico whiptail lizards: An interesting aspect to reproduction in these asexual lizards is that mating behaviors are still seen, although the populations are all female. One female plays the role played by the male in closely related species, and mounts the female that is about to lay eggs. This behaviour is due to the hormonal cycles of the females, which cause them to behave l…

The way to tell if a cow is in heat, is when she stands still while other cows mount her in the same fashion a bull would. It isn't odd that very important behavior is at least partially determined by genes found on the other chromosomes.

[deleted]

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hebrew word for young girl was very close to the word virgin, there was only a subtle difference in the spelling.

The new testament was written in Greek, not in Hebrew. And yes, back then, the word virgin could actually have allegoric meaning(young/innocent/beautiful/... girl). Imagine if she was actually the first ever mammal to asexually reproduce..

Yes, but the prophecy that Jesus fulfilled by being born of a virgin was from the Old Testament (Isaiah 7:14), not the New Testament. (the Old Testament was written in Hebrew)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+7%3A14&v...

Re: Virgin births in animals are no longer rare

#30
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His main argument was actually the Lord Liar Lunatic one, where you need to prescribe one of those descriptions to him (He argues).

The 4th alliterative option is 'Legend'. Lord, Liar, Lunatic, Legend Lunatic and Legend are far far far more likely options, which require no appeal to supernatural claims.

"Lunatic and Legend are far far far more likely options, which require no appeal to supernatural claims."

I respectfully disagree. I believe that Jesus is exactly who He said he was -- the Great I Am -- God in the flesh. I have staked my life and all of eternity on Him, and I am fully confident of who He is, and of His faithfulness to His promise to me, that all who believe in Him freely receive eternal life.

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