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Why India outsourcing is doomed

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41–50 of 91 posts

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#41
Who are these "experts"? Why they are so cocksure that the problem with outsourcing is related to any ethnicity? Oh, they are Slavic "managers" of a lowest rank..

Outsourcing could become a problem in situation when a "man in the middle" is incompetent and incapable to perform these tasks himself, so he obviously cannot estimate correctly any time-frames or evaluate sub-contractor's performance, and, most importantly, have no idea which tasks in a "project" could be outsourced and how to split them correctly into sub-tasks and between people to work in parallel.

What is the problem really? The answer is greed, mediocrity, incompetence and inflated self-esteem.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#43
Take away the point about the 12-hour difference, and you can repurpose this article into: Why Silicon Valley startups are doomed.

-Resource Availability

-Resource Quality

- Employee turnover

- Mindset and work ethics

- Cost

A truly lazy piece of writing about generic/cylical demand-supply challenges that most booming industries end up facing.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#44

Not sure why the author seems to insinuate that the problems he/she has described are somehow specific to India. We had a disaster when we outsourced a large piece of design work to Denmark. We found out that the outsourcer in Denmark was themselves outsourcing chunks of work to Ukraine. Our bias assuming that an expensive Scandinavian outsourcer would be magically better than a cheaper Asian alternative led us astra…

We outsource successfully. But we have a 1 on 1 relationship with each developer outside our company. So no fooling us about whom it is doing the work. It takes real work to manage any developer. Its an illusion to think outsourcing solve all the problems. We think of it as simply a recruitment tool really. Not that we hire all the developers we work with. But the outsourcing company is only there to bring in talent…

>But we have a 1 on 1 relationship with each developer outside our company

This is the main issue. Not whether the outsourcing is done to India, the Philippines, or even in the US. The model of shipping off your large projects to another company is going to be very problematic.

One on one relations with a good developer are going to be the way to go. A lot of smaller startups that outsource do this.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#45
post #40
post #11

Some parts of this post are true, some are straight wrong. To let you know I worked for a Major Indian IT services firm for over 5 years. >>with no innovation and nothing to offer other than questionable rate savings. Most of the big IT services firms have very elaborate and very active community of people who innovate all the time. In fact if you are working with any moderately big outsourcing firm, they will likely…

I'll try to reply cautiously, but I don't think your picture of innovation is accurate. To start with, the big-5 IT majors find it very difficult to attract talent. Even back when I was in college ('98-), the IT majors were a fallback option for most people. In fact, the best students didn't even bother applying there. This has only gotten worse now, from what I hear. It is also my opinion that there isn't a lot of i…

>>In fact, the best students didn't even bother applying there. This has only gotten worse now, from what I hear.

Largely because these companies pay less, not because quality of work in product companies is higher.

I worked at a onsite location for a company which is one of the largest internet companies. We were all hired to work there after elaborate interviews. And we used to be repeatedly told they hire only the best, from the best universities and all that. Yet when we worked together as a team, most of these kids hired from IIT's who really believed they were some special snow flakes and all they really got to work on was HTML and some small time shell scripts. These kids had never seen what it meant work on a P1 bug after clocking full nighter, never had any exposure command line kung fu, they didn't know what it meant to having spend a full weekend writing a 2K line perl script because someone at the top wanted a prototype/reporting application done by Monday, heck for all the algorithm geniuses they were considered they could barely do any genuine work of significance to the real world. All they were really interested is in learning the next set of interview questions that were in trend so they could get some one in their alumni have an interview arranged for their next jobs.

The irony is we did bulk of the really algorithmic work there was. We set up a good deal of hadoop infrastructure and platform, we wrote a great deal of what were the complex workflows. And got a lot of systems and applications set up. Yet we were thought of as some kind of lesser children.

I'd really judge the best students/best professionals by the work they do, not the college they belong to, or their degree or their college network.

Show me what work you've done. Everything else is just hot air.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#47
post #28

Oh not this stupid argument again. Many problems he mentions aren't specific to India, you'll find them across all developing economies (We had most of the same issues contracting work to a Chinese and Brazilian company). At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. And some companies are clearly okay with said cheap work. There's a reason the IT industry in Hyderabad/B'lore is booming. Want solid contracting wor…

Your post contains more xenophobia than the article, "comrade"

"Your post contains more xenophobia than the article"

This statement seems completely unfounded to me. I feel the OP makes valid points, any professional developer that delivers high quality work is not going to be cheap. If you want high quality solid software you have to pay for it. Developers who have been around long enough know this and charge accordingly. If its cheap you're only getting one of two things, a good developer who doesn't know what they are worth (probably because they don't have the exp yet), or crap.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#48
Most of these arguments can be made about any country and any type of contractors, from car mechanics to house builders. Bad cost estimates, Cost overruns, work not completed to satisfaction of the buyer, work completed but with poor quality are all in general aspects of any kind of outsourcing. There's a saying if you want something done and done well do it yourself. Whoever you hire may not be able to satisfy all your expectations. Adding to the confusion sometimes people who charge a lot do a lousy job and people who charge less end up doing better work. Such is life.

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#49

"Finding talent in Hi Tech centers like Bangalore is almost as hard as finding qualified people in Silicon Valley." This is a good point. A related question: Can more and better work be done by less people? If so, are 'two-dozen dev-ops' (a rhetorical number) adequate for all scenarios?

Yes, more and better work can be done by less people - it's axiomatic in software. It just takes longer - and often looks like people sitting around thinking and experimenting.

I agree except for

"It just takes longer"

Which depends a lot on everything. As an extreme example a bunch of junior people might develop a feature for a few sprints using TDD, XP and whatnot and not getting it done while a single expert might implement the feature simply and elegantly in a few days and a lot less code.

My favorite example of this are two blog artifacts: The first of which describes an attempt to write a Sudoku solver using TDD, and as a counterpoint Peter Norvig's simple and elegant sudoku solver in python (as previously discussed in HN):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3033446

Re: Why India outsourcing is doomed

#50
post #43

Take away the point about the 12-hour difference, and you can repurpose this article into: Why Silicon Valley startups are doomed. -Resource Availability -Resource Quality - Employee turnover - Mindset and work ethics - Cost A truly lazy piece of writing about generic/cylical demand-supply challenges that most booming industries end up facing.

Referring to people as resources is normally reserved for Outlook resources at financial institutions.
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