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Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

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Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#31

Post by tn13 »

As I moved out of my teens (and after watching GoT) I learned that nothing often resembles to what is claimed and nothing can be painted in black and white.

Assange or Snowden are not really white knights. While Snowden did an heroic act without being biased towards any specific political ideology, Assange has made a good enough career by playing his cards with good political acumen as people have shown in the comments.

Honestly, I think Assange is just as bad as our politicians but in a way he brings some balance to an otherwise tightly controlled political narrative.

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#32

Post by nl »

Sniperfish wrote: post #4

The parent article links to Assange's comments after meeting with Schmidt "Google is Not What it Seems" [1] which has some interesting discussion of the links between Google's senior level and politicians. Published yesterday, I don't recall seeing it linked. [1] http://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-279...

That's been on HN at least twice.

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#33

Post by revscat »

rtpg wrote: post #27
niels_olson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He chooses not to as he is a coward It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US. The US has made it quite clear, vis-a-vis Manning, Drake, Binning, etc, that he would have a very bad time ahead of him, and possibly see everything he has attempted to accomplish shuttered and turned against him. In any case, his signal would surely be reduced t…

>It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US How is this clear? A warrant for his arrest is for extradition to Sweden. In the case that the US wants to get him, he would then have to get the permission of the UK and of Sweden. Last I check Assange doesn't have a warrant for an extradition to the US

Why on Earth would you think a lack of a warrant would matter? This is the US government we are talking about here. Absconding people to put them in Gitmo, or CIA black sites, or simply executed, are all techniques used regularly and without hesitation. Last I checked the U.S. does not care about warrants, especially against foreign nationals.

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#34

Post by alex_hitchins »

rtpg wrote: post #27
niels_olson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He chooses not to as he is a coward It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US. The US has made it quite clear, vis-a-vis Manning, Drake, Binning, etc, that he would have a very bad time ahead of him, and possibly see everything he has attempted to accomplish shuttered and turned against him. In any case, his signal would surely be reduced t…

>It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US How is this clear? A warrant for his arrest is for extradition to Sweden. In the case that the US wants to get him, he would then have to get the permission of the UK and of Sweden. Last I check Assange doesn't have a warrant for an extradition to the US

Exactly. He is wanted in Sweden.

Also, Snowden is a whistle-blower. Assange is a politician, concerned with his image. Snowden AFAIK is more concerned with the truth and not his ego.

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#35

Post by alex_hitchins »

revscat wrote: post #33
rtpg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US How is this clear? A warrant for his arrest is for extradition to Sweden. In the case that the US wants to get him, he would then have to get the permission of the UK and of Sweden. Last I check Assange doesn't have a warrant for an extradition to the US

Why on Earth would you think a lack of a warrant would matter? This is the US government we are talking about here. Absconding people to put them in Gitmo, or CIA black sites, or simply executed, are all techniques used regularly and without hesitation. Last I checked the U.S. does not care about warrants, especially against foreign nationals.

So why don't they enter the embassy and extricate him forcibly then?

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#36

Post by alex_hitchins »

woah wrote: post #30
alex_hitchins wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regards to him hiding out in the embassy, it really irritates me when he refers to this as 'house arrest' or 'detained without charge'. He is there of his own free will. He can leave at any time. He chooses not to as he is a coward.

He's hiding out from a regime that has demonstrated a willingness to torture him and violates the Geneva convention and other international law with impunity. I'm not sure where you have gotten the idea that he is a coward. Clearly, he is braver than me, you, or most of the other posters in this thread.

I don't see what he has done that was brave. Manning, Snowdon etc. are genuine brave people acting selflessly to try and make a change. Assange is a politician first and foremost looking after his own image and self before anything else. Plenty of people who knew/know him will attest to this.

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#37

Post by _nedR »

steve19 wrote: post #8
xnull2guest wrote: post #3

This goes to some lengths to explain why Assange is willing to publish anything, no matter how damaging in the short term it may be to particular interests. He doesn't want to be a curator or a decision maker about what information is or is not available. He is interested in solving the architectural problem of removing the ability to having political interests or personal bias influence control what gets published.…

Nonsense. Assange goes to great lengths to spin his political agenda. For example the "Collateral Murder" video. He did not publish raw source material, he published his narrative: http://www.collateralmurder.com/ He is no Snowden. Snowden was upfront and honest from the start about what he was trying to achieve. I used to admire Assange, now Assange is caught up in his own myth and he seems desperate to keep that my…

>> He did not publish raw source material, he published his narrative:

He published both.

Full Unedited Footage : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Pk53Xjvtc

Shortened version : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#38

Post by techrat »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #17
corin_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much agree - I never agreed with everything Assange was doing, but I at least thought he was doing it for the right reasons and respected him for that, but as time goes on he just seems more deluded and often self-interested. I suppose in his defense it can't be easy being stuck in an embassy for two and a half years.

Regards to him hiding out in the embassy, it really irritates me when he refers to this as 'house arrest' or 'detained without charge'. He is there of his own free will. He can leave at any time. He chooses not to as he is a coward.

Name one other incident where an international manhunt was conducted for what basically amounted to a groping charge.

Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused.

So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange.

You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden?

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#39

Post by alex_hitchins »

techrat wrote: post #38
alex_hitchins wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regards to him hiding out in the embassy, it really irritates me when he refers to this as 'house arrest' or 'detained without charge'. He is there of his own free will. He can leave at any time. He chooses not to as he is a coward.

Name one other incident where an international manhunt was conducted for what basically amounted to a groping charge. Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused. So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange. You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexu…

>for what basically amounted to a groping charge.

Are you implying that groping isn't worth a criminal charge? I hope not.

>Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused.

How kind of him to be so accommodating!

>So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange.

As a UK National and UK taxpayer I am frustrated by this waste of money. Remove the coppers from the door, it's not like he can get out the country.

>You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden?

Yes

Re: Julian Assange: Why I Founded WikiLeaks

#40

Post by revscat »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #35
revscat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on Earth would you think a lack of a warrant would matter? This is the US government we are talking about here. Absconding people to put them in Gitmo, or CIA black sites, or simply executed, are all techniques used regularly and without hesitation. Last I checked the U.S. does not care about warrants, especially against foreign nationals.

So why don't they enter the embassy and extricate him forcibly then?

My guess is because this is a highly visible incident, and doing so would violate the deeply entrenched norms regarding the sovereignty of embassies. The blowback would be severe. Assange is also white and not a Muslim.
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