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Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

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Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#61

What about System76? Aren't they in the exact market space/niche you're describing? https://system76.com/

I replaced my work laptop (MBP 15") with a System76 GalagoPro. I wanted the Galago for my personal machine, but stuff like the trackpad just didn't work half as well. I bought a Macbook Air for my personal machine, and will end up getting a Linux desktop for my home office.

I got the Galago model from another retailer because they were cheaper and I was hearing horror stories at the time about system76 support. Apparently they got their act together and made a big positive PR campaign in the months following that won back mindshare though.

Yea, the trackpad is shit. But all trackpads are shit, including the MBP trackpad, having used at least the 2010 and 2013 models my friends have for a few days at a time. I always use a bluetooth or wired mouse with a notebook. The hinge scares me to death though, and the screen has more flex than a veteran stripper. The revised keyboard I actually really like though. I use a mechanical one at my workstation and honestly do not mind the chiclet keyboard on the Galago at all.

The connectivity is fantastic. HDMI and displayport out means I can run triple monitor off the thing, and the i7 with Iris graphics means it can actually run three monitors. Three USB is great, the battery life is fine (I get about 4 - 6 hours of web browsing and emailing, 3 - 4 of movie streaming). The size is fine. If they had made it unibody aluminum and got rid of the screen flex by making it slightly thicker, I would have paid another $100 and been completely sold. I just threw a 256GB SSD in plus the 1TB mechanical it comes with and it is a portable monster that is actually compact.

End of the day, it was a much better buy IMO than a $2000+ MBP, despite the shortcomings. Though I'm actually really interested in trying out a low end Chromebook with Kubuntu on it to see how that plays at some point.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#62
post #26

It's got nothing to do with cost, which is IMHO a complete canard. Spec for spec, MacBooks are actually quite competitive in the market in which they compete[0]. I'd love to see a linux based laptop that is as well integrated and as well made as a Mac. It'd be great if it wasn't fugly too. If it's cheaper, that's a bonus, but in all honesty, I've yet to find a brand new laptop that costs less that £700 that isn't a p…

I go to a consumer website. I select laptops priced between £500 and £750 (this includes VAT at 20% which is reclaimable if you're a VAT registered business user. £750 is $1160, but UK/US proce comparisons are tricky).

What's wrong with, for example (at £596): http://m.dabs.com/products/toshiba-satellite-pro-c70-b-10e-i...

I can see some sub-optimallity (max ram is "only" 16 GB) but I wouldn't describe it as a piece of junk.

(I've never used on! Maybe it's a horrible machine)

PS: you don't have any contact information in your profile but I am on the lookout for an old but mostly working cheap laptop. If you - or anyone else in the UK - has any suggestions they'd be gratefully recieved.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#63

I, personally, want the T420 with a better (16:10) screen and speakers. The processor is also starting to get a bit long in the tooth for what I do. I don't even need a 4:3. (I prefer two side-by-side columns for coding.) Oh, and the system should wake from sleep properly 100% of the time rather than 96% of the time (as my t420 does) and I shouldn't have intermittent wi-fi problems (as my t420 does.) So, I think the…

Completely agreed. I've been able to work quite effectively on a T520i -- but I've also experienced occasional frustration with the hardware integration. Every time I upgrade Ubuntu, I worry that I'm about to knock my system's stability off its precarious perch, and sometimes it happens. Things just aren't bulletproof. For my next computer, I'm willing to spend the extra $1000 for a Mac, where I can believe that thin…

You can buy a system76, thinkpenguin, Dell XPS 13, or Zareason computer and expect Ubuntu to just work™. Stop buying Windows computers and saying its the Linux distros fault the hardware isn't fully supported or stable, it is the same thing as trying to install OSX on a Windows computer and complaining nothing works. You gotta get supported products, and they do exist now, they are just a small and growing market. But it will only grow if people actually buy barebones / Ubuntu machines to send the message people are willing to buy them and not just add to the sales figures of Windows laptop nine million.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#64
I would love one. Currently in between real laptops (long story, currently using a £200 15" craptop with debian XFCE) and I am genuinely puzzled what to do next.

Macbook air (my last real laptop, 11") was awesome, but you have to upgrade the storage at the start (I learned the hard way). There's no option for a smallish SSD + big spinning data drive (which, in practise, turns out to be extremely useful.) I could break the bank and order the 500GB SSD, but then I get worried about longevity. Additionally, I'd have to live with Yosemite for the time being, which it seems is the Lion of this generation of OSs (much much slower than its predecessor).

So I started looking at ThinkPads as the traditional Linux laptops. I met a guy in a coffee shop, literally yesterday, who was still running a 32-bit X200 and said he wouldn't change it for the world. Looking at the latest of that line (X240) I am tempted (especially by the NGFF SSD slot, and the much higher resolution) until I read the reviews everyone is posting about how awful the mac-style trackpad is. I love the apple touchpads, I actually own the bluetooth external one, but the USP of them is clearly their drivers. It sounds like the X240's trackpad is going to be even worse than my craptops, which at least has buttons!

I've just had a look at the System76 brand, but their smallest device is a 14"-er! So no dice there. It would have two full HDD slots though, which would allow for some serious storage customisation...

So what to do? At the moment I'm tempted by the X240, and being prepared to carry around a USB mouse in case it is impossible to hack that trackpad.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#65

No. Linux makes for a good server setup, but the desktop side is lacking in high-quality applications that are considered standard on other platforms. Linux simply has too many cooks to ever achieve the mostly homogenous experience of Windows or Mac. That is both it's blessing and it's curse. Besides, I get 90% of what I need from Linux on a Mac and the other 10% I can get from a VM running Linux or a remote box.

Few days ago I've installed Ubuntu on at work. I cannot open folders under many directories because I don't have permissions. Then I gave permissions, with the terminal. And guess what? I has started to reset its static IP. I wanted to ad cron jobs, they didn't work, also you write them as text, I have no idea how they work. When you shut down Ubuntu from terminal the PC goes for sleep, it doesn't power off. You don'…

It sounds like you ended up reading some out-of-date forum posts and older documentation.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#66
A linux computer of the quality of a mac is basically ... a mac. Yes, the mac isn't an open source-based computer but every other aspect of what makes it "a mac" is the quality of function, design, and integration. If anyone could bring a computer to market that had those qualities without the walled garden, I'm sure it would be wildly popular, but the challenges inherent in doing that are obvious. The post begs the question.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#67
For me yes, but I already use separate Linux and MBP laptops. I think about upgrading my Linux laptop from time to time and I'd like something with the power of my MBP with its form factor.

However, I'm a current Linux user (my primary dev machine) who'd be upgrading, not converting from Mac to Linux.

IMHO, Linux is a kickass dev OS once you really get Linux. However, it does lack the refinement of Mac OS, so I think it's a long shot that a substantial number of devs would switch. My $0.02.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#68
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I've read a bunch of people who want eink screens. I'm a bit confused: the refresh rate is terrible for eink. Typing text would be painful. Maybe the year 2020 will have great quality fast eink but today it'd be a pretty lousy experience.

Touch-typists don't need to look at the screen while typing. More clock time is spent reading than typing. E-ink is much less stressful on eyes.

Touch typists don't need to look at the keys while typimg. While it's possible for people to type without looking at the screen most people find it really difficult to do so.

I'd love an e-ink screen. But I remember how horrible it was to use the Kindle browser.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#69

I think biggest problem about Linux is X server. Without modern and fresh display server Linux desktop enviroments just trying to be alive with hacks and workarounds.

Eradicating tearing throughout my desktop and applications has always been an enormous problem for me. I'm ready for X to die.

Re: Would you use a Linux based computer, better or equal to a mac in quality?

#70

I don't mean to be critical, but it seems like kind of the wrong question to ask. Anyone who would answer yes to this question has already answered it in practice: I have a mac, and I could well install linux on it, but I don't. I used to use thinkpads when they didn't suck, and I tried linux but always had driver and media troubles (that was a decade ago and has absolutely gotten better, but definitely not perfect).…

I bought the Clevo 730SU from Xotic PC without an OS (it is the same model as the System76 Galago, but I was putting Arch on it anyway and didn't care). I knew I'd have to buy a replacement NIC because it came with some junk realtek one (I always buy Atheros AR9452s from Ebay because they are cheap and good, they get a good 30MB/s bandwidth for me and good bluetooth for like $12). Got a Crucial m550 ssd to pair with it, and was thinking of doing FHD on both drives, turns out the Hitachi drive it came with didn't support it and the Crucial drive only used bitlocker rather than ATA passwords so I just used luks on the mechanical and my home directory partition and kept the base system unencrypted so I don't have to do any early boot password nonsense.

I also have a workstation, a 4770k on an Asus z87i deluxe with a (now) MSI 290 GPU, a Samsung 840 Pro SSD, and another one of those Atheros NICs.

Both machines run Arch, and I do all my development work on them. I can't stand the OSX UI anymore, and I do hobbyist KDE development work.

So hardware woes:

As per usual, there is no motherboard vendor that "supports" Linux. So you are blindly throwing darts on good EFI implementations, of which there is one, and its called Tianocore and nobody uses it because they are all dumb. So in my time I have gone through three motherboard vendors, Asrock, ASUS, and MSI, and I have only ever had a flawless experience on the MSI board. The Asrock board wipes its EFI boot table every update, and the ASUS board has so many problems its insane. It only accepts one EFI boot entry, the integrated GPU cannot PRIME as a secondary card because of EFI breakage, it doesn't report temperature sensors right, for the longest time it just randomly overvolted or undervoled the vcore because it has an onboard custom vrm controller, and the interface is shit and the update procedure requires you to put the firmware blob on a fat32 usb and install it from there. The Asrock board had DHCP support so it could just update over the Internet. They are all shit, because I shouldn't need to do any of this crap and should just have my kernel as a coreboot payload if the world made any sense.

I should mention I also had an "old" workstation using a 920 and gtx 285, which was originally running Windows Vista before I saw the light. For a while the Nvidia driver worked ok on there, but suspend broke it and it couldn't resume the video device, and when I eventually gave that workstation to my mother (who reads email on it now) Nouveau worked flawlessly and was able to resume and do dvi -> hdmi audio perfectly out of the box.

Otherwise I had a 7870 I just gave to a friend for Xmas when I first built my workstation, and like I said I replaced it with a 290 now that the card has good radeonSI support. That thing worked pretty flawlessly, and if I ran PRIME from the integrated to the discrete it was a great multi-gpu experience and worked flawlessly.

The only problems I've ever had with my workstation are that since I run btrfs on it, I've had the file system become corrupted and unrecoverable three times, and I was able to recover it two more times. I always keep weekly backups of the disk (its a 256GB SSD paired with a 3TB internal HDD and two 1TB externals for backups plus Spideroak) so I just do weekly images and reimage whenever the filesystem dies. My general policy is once I go six months without it failing catastrophically I can start recommending it to everyone else.

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