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Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

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Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#61
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heavy spin is necessary to preserve the image that Uber represents the drivers. Uber really just provides technical infrastructure and marketing, and rakes off most of the profit. Almost all of that wealth should be flowing back to the drivers who provide Uber's actual service. The drivers need to unionize and break Uber's back before Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. It shouldn't be too hard for the…

I am perfectly aware that we live in deeply partisan times. Partisan in not just political ideologies but also in ways we see the world and our place in it. At times, it seems all middle ground has vanished. But that discussion is for another time. Unionizing is a contentious issue not just for the employers but also for the consumers, especially when you look at how unions - in the industries and sectors where they…

> seem to always serve the interests of just the union members and in no particular way improve the experience of the consumers.

Serving the interests of the union members - representing them in their negotiations with management, to be precise - is a union's reason for being. They might also hold their members to a standard of professional ethics, depending on the union, and that might or might not benefit you as a consumer, but that's not the immediate goal.

> Are there documented cases of industries or even governmental sectors where unionizing - whether in America or abroad, say France - has proved immensely beneficial to the consumers and patrons?

The example that leaps to mind, in part because the comparison is so easy, is the press. In my town the difference in quality of output between journalists who are members of the guild and those who are not is quite noticeable.

Whether you want to credit that to the union, or the fact that better journalists are also better career strategists or something, is up to you. You're focused on the wrong thing vis a vis unions. They are there for the workers, that might or might not play out well for the consumer.

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#62
post #21

To anyone who knows more about law, is it legally/morally justifiable to hold individual executives liable for company tactics to this extent? Why don't they just ban/fine the company instead?

IANAL but (in Ireland) liability usually stops with the company unless the directors are shown to have acted outside company law.

Given that Uber's business model seems to be based on "fuck the law, we'll do what we want" - in my view is that the management, morally, can't rely on that same legal system to insulate them from punishment.

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#63
post #51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The drivers need to unionize and break Uber's back before Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. It shouldn't be too hard for them to organize, since they all have smartphones and they all end up dissatisfied when Uber cuts their rates. As a consumer who would much rather ride in a self-driving car than with a human driver, this notion pains my heart. Using unions to halt the progress of technology hurts us…

your "progress of technology" is based off of the exploitation of the lower class. I'd much rather our resources be allocated in a way that doesn't force people to work 3 jobs.

If this was a different company in HN people would be clamoring that everyone else needs to get with the times and that this is just our favorite buzzword "disruption" at work. It doesn't apply to uber now, I guess just since they've crossed the invisible HN "us vs. them" threshold now that they have a lot of money.

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionizing wasn't such a contentious issue when employers were working their employees to death and paying them in credit to be used at the company store.

Which they're obviously not now, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Isn't this essentially how Wal Mart operates in the US today?

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#65
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, because of information asymmetry. Users of taxi services, like users of medicine, are vastly less informed about the quality of the service than those that provide it. Contrary to Uber's propaganda, legislation around taxis is not there, for the most part, to increase the revenue of taxi operators.

Anyone with a smart phone to use Uber is capable of researching though. If they don't research the onus is on them. I don't just blindly buy products, or hire contractors it's not 1950. I always read reviews first. The people HAVE the power to find competitors in their area. If they donee en try that's not anyone's fault but their own.

Like you, I always have a charged battery, a data connection, and the time to conduct research.

I also have a PhD in chemistry, and I find this knowledge invaluable for assessing the potential for harm of all food additivies and environmental pollutants. I find this nicely complements my medical training, which of course helps me make the best decisions regarding my health, and my PhD in CS which keeps my data safe online. Of course my 15 years of MMA keeps me safe on the street, and my extensive knowledge of finance means I never have to worry about my bank's financial security.

I really don't understand why we need any governmental organisations!

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#66
post #51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The drivers need to unionize and break Uber's back before Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. It shouldn't be too hard for them to organize, since they all have smartphones and they all end up dissatisfied when Uber cuts their rates. As a consumer who would much rather ride in a self-driving car than with a human driver, this notion pains my heart. Using unions to halt the progress of technology hurts us…

your "progress of technology" is based off of the exploitation of the lower class. I'd much rather our resources be allocated in a way that doesn't force people to work 3 jobs.

I understand your point but there's a much less stifling middle ground. Unions can be grand things until a line is crossed. Higher wages for drivers? Sure. Safety and insurance? Absolutely. Prolonging the adaptation of a technology that will replace the dangerous alternative (humans operating cars)? Please, no: this job market is now dead for drivers. It's time to move on.

Or should we go back to horse-drawn carriages in consideration of the unemployed buggy drivers?

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with a smart phone to use Uber is capable of researching though. If they don't research the onus is on them. I don't just blindly buy products, or hire contractors it's not 1950. I always read reviews first. The people HAVE the power to find competitors in their area. If they donee en try that's not anyone's fault but their own.

Like you, I always have a charged battery, a data connection, and the time to conduct research. I also have a PhD in chemistry, and I find this knowledge invaluable for assessing the potential for harm of all food additivies and environmental pollutants. I find this nicely complements my medical training, which of course helps me make the best decisions regarding my health, and my PhD in CS which keeps my data safe o…

Comparing taxi pricing to food safety is crass. Last I checked there weren't degress in taxi fair-ology.

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works anywhere. Stupid state monopoly mafia trying to control how people are supposed to make money is scared. That's all there is to it. If I want to drive somebody and make money I don't need no licence. There's absolutely no justification for requiring a licence.

Stop this Randian nonsense. There are perfectly valid reasons to regulate taxi services - such as ensuring that passengers are safe, or that they aren't ripped off. Those requirements are beneficial as a whole. It's perfectly valid to question whether or not the current regime in various places has been effective at achieving these goals. It's also fine to change the way it all works. But dismissing it out of hand li…

Stop this Randian nonsense.

This is the kind of unnecessarily provocative embellishment that HN guidelines specifically call out:

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#69
post #51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The drivers need to unionize and break Uber's back before Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. It shouldn't be too hard for them to organize, since they all have smartphones and they all end up dissatisfied when Uber cuts their rates. As a consumer who would much rather ride in a self-driving car than with a human driver, this notion pains my heart. Using unions to halt the progress of technology hurts us…

your "progress of technology" is based off of the exploitation of the lower class. I'd much rather our resources be allocated in a way that doesn't force people to work 3 jobs.

This leads to the big philosophical question that has been relevant for some time. If we have the choice, which society is preferrable:

(1) Most services automated away, and those who don't have the skills or abilities to earn money are supported by taxing those who do

(2) technological progress is actively hindered in order to ensure that everyone has the skills to hold a job that pays enough to live on, or

(3) most services are automated away, and those who don't have the skills or abilities to earn enough to live are left to live in poverty (or starve)

And as technologists, which world should we push for? Ethics is not given nearly enough consideration among technologists, and this is one prime example.

Re: Uber CEO Indicted in South Korea Over Its Taxi Service

#70
post #29
post #2

> “Uber does not believe it is appropriate for authorities to seek to punish drivers who are trying to make a living through this service,” Uber said in today’s e-mail. Uber needs to slow down the spin. It might work in metros in the US, but it's not going to work in Seoul.

The heavy spin is necessary to preserve the image that Uber represents the drivers. Uber really just provides technical infrastructure and marketing, and rakes off most of the profit. Almost all of that wealth should be flowing back to the drivers who provide Uber's actual service. The drivers need to unionize and break Uber's back before Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. It shouldn't be too hard for the…

Unionize? What for? They aren't forced to work for Uber. Organize? The very same people, many of whom never did this type of work before, let alone organize, you expect them to step up and try to?

As in, before Uber what were they doing, when Uber leaves what do you think they will be doing. Pretty much what they did before Uber, not be a taxi.

Unions were a necessary part of life when industrialization first took off, now they are not. In heavily regulated countries they are abusive of both the public and private entities they have workers within.

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