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For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
31–40 of 63 posts
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm inclined to agree but, honestly, Peter Thiel is one of the better and more thoughtful ones within that set. Closed networks like "the Paypal Mafia" are really, really bad for the world and Thiel is at least showing some interest in looking outside of it. In general, I think he's less elitist than most of them are. One thing to remember about Silicon Valley is that it's still suburban California . It's fucking pro…
Have you been on the east coast very much. For a lot of it. It's dog eat dog. The attitude in DC is "your car is worth less than my deductable." There is a reason for the term Massholes, it's not even contested. NYC is priced out because of the finance sector, geography, and the fact that there are too many people there. I'm not trying to take away from your critcisms of the west coast. But claiming that the Ivy leag…
I lived in New York for 7 years.
Yeah, there are things I dislike about the East Coast. (Oddly enough, I'm moving to Chicago in January. I'm really looking forward to it.) I'm not a fan of DC's culture. As for Boston, I like the younger crowd a lot, but there's definitely a lack of progressivism that I see in Boston companies.
New York real estate is obnoxiously expensive, but yes, the people are more down to earth and less pedigree-obsessed than their counterparts in San Francisco. I won't pretend that pre-existing social class doesn't matter in New York; it's just not as big of a deal on a practical level. It matters if you're trying to get into nightclubs or exclusive parties, or to get your wedding published in the Times, but it doesn't infect your work life nearly as much. If you flash pedigree at your job too often, you become a pariah. I know a trader who was mocked after his wedding hit NYT, and I've known other people to be fired (in finance) for having too much visibility (for non-work "society" shit) in the press. Whereas in the Valley, you have to become a celebrity to have a career.
The difference between Stanford and Berkeley is founder with 30% (after the first round) vs. engineer with 0.5%. The difference between Harvard and Cornell is a $100k hedge fund job with a $20k signing bonus and a similar job with a $15k signing bonus.
On Chicago and the Midwest in general, I'd love to see the Midwest take off in technology, and I think it can. It's an underrated part of the country. I was just, for this purpose, comparing the blue-blooded noblesse oblige East Coast mentality to the monstrosity that's grown up in Silicon Valley (it's unfair to apply its stereotypes to the rest of the West Coast).
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#33Very good article. I must admit, the more I read about Thiel, the less I like him. It's unclear to me why they think that SV is more meritocratic than anything else. Sports still seems much more meritocratic than SV. Any industry that depends so much on getting funding hardly seems like it would be especially meritocratic -- at least at first blush.
I'm inclined to agree but, honestly, Peter Thiel is one of the better and more thoughtful ones within that set. Closed networks like "the Paypal Mafia" are really, really bad for the world and Thiel is at least showing some interest in looking outside of it. In general, I think he's less elitist than most of them are. One thing to remember about Silicon Valley is that it's still suburban California . It's fucking pro…
>those supposedly stodgy and "conservative" investment banks are far better places to be a woman, or minority, or just over 40, than VC-funded tech in the Valley.
Numbers, please.
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#34Too much hype. What this article does not mention is that all of these people are now in the sunset of their careers. Even the ones that achieved a lot are already declining from their peaks. I'm much more interested in what the class of 2015 is going to do.
Age 42 is the sunset of their careers? Really?
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people don't question views that justify their wealth.
Which wouldn't be so bad, but Thiel, Andressen, et al, seem determined to foist their flavour of "smart stupid" on everyone else.
Admittedly, I can kinda-sorta understand becoming a libertarian if you grew up in Northern California: its local/municipal/regional governments are a special kind of stupid that you only get when combining lower-class reaction with landowner chauvinism with new money elitism.
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#36Very good article. I must admit, the more I read about Thiel, the less I like him. It's unclear to me why they think that SV is more meritocratic than anything else. Sports still seems much more meritocratic than SV. Any industry that depends so much on getting funding hardly seems like it would be especially meritocratic -- at least at first blush.
> It's unclear to me why they think that SV is more meritocratic than anything else. Sports still seems much more meritocratic than SV. Any industry that depends so much on getting funding hardly seems like it would be especially meritocratic -- at least at first blush. Fair point. Sports may indeed be fairer and more objective than other industries - results are easily measured, and are objective. And it's clear tha…
There's some truth in what you're saying, and I don't entirely disagree, but here are where I see you being overly optimistic on the matter of SV's meritocracy.
> You don't need a degree to get into tech.
As soon as the market draws back, the non-BA programmers are going to be shut out (and most will have to go to school). I wish it weren't that way, but that seems to be how these things work. The more pedigreed you are, the less you fall.
That said, a bit of blue-collar street smarts can also serve you well. The people who really take a dive are the middle-class earnest types who aren't high enough on the socioeconomic spectrum to be protected, but were never low enough to learn how brutal the world can be when resources are scarce and contracting.
> Talent has the opportunity to present itself in an abstract way. You can create an anonymous github account and prove your skills, and no one would know any demographic information about you.
You can get an engineer position, but you won't become a founder that way. There are no blind auditions to raise VC.
> In tech, some people benefit from mentors, but there are also lots of examples of people that have never had a mentor and do very well.
What would you call the guy who offers the first introduction to the first investor?
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you been on the east coast very much. For a lot of it. It's dog eat dog. The attitude in DC is "your car is worth less than my deductable." There is a reason for the term Massholes, it's not even contested. NYC is priced out because of the finance sector, geography, and the fact that there are too many people there. I'm not trying to take away from your critcisms of the west coast. But claiming that the Ivy leag…
I lived in New York for 7 years. Yeah, there are things I dislike about the East Coast. (Oddly enough, I'm moving to Chicago in January. I'm really looking forward to it.) I'm not a fan of DC's culture. As for Boston, I like the younger crowd a lot, but there's definitely a lack of progressivism that I see in Boston companies. New York real estate is obnoxiously expensive, but yes, the people are more down to earth a…
Moving to Chicago in January. Man, just hope that we have a warm winter, unlike last year. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm a east coaster born and raised. I only moved to chicago a year and a half ago. Something I noticed about Chicago: I met all of my neighbors within a week of moving in. I had never known my neighbors let alone was able to acknowledge them beyond a nod while on the coast.
If you want to go for a beer sometime after you move in. I would be willing to do that. Also, take a look at the CJUG, we're pretty active. I've heard good things about the Erlang and ruby group. It also seems that the code and cans meetup group is taking off.
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#38I always find it quite indicative of American attitudes that this article took "number of companies founded" as a metric of success, and ham-fistedly conclude that the men are "ruling".
Why not take "happiness with current quality of life" as one? Incorporate that into your survey, and see how many men and women report back as being satisfied and happy with their lives.
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#39It couldn't possibly have anything to do with more men than women being into computing? They cite examples of women who were in computing dropping out. But surely lots of men dropped out, too. But the women made more news. And since there were more men, more remained to go on and get rich on the internet. It's just bad, bad science. Please apply some proper statistics instead of stirring up emotions with anecdotes.
So take that thought one level deeper: why are proportionally fewer women entering computing and proportionally more of them dropping out?
I knew this would come up. You probably think because computers weren't marketed to women? What if electronics companies only marketed to men because it was mostly men who were into electronics? Then rinse, repeat, why were fewer women interested in electronics, and so on...
I don't have all the answers, but one answer is: because the women were doing other things. There seems to be this idea that women who don't go into engineering become "desperate housewives". In reality they become physicians or bankers or lawyers. The article actually mentions that.
The reality is that computing is a pretty anti-social activity. Yes, there are meetings and clients, but your main job is being glued to a computer screen, alone. Frankly, I don't think it is a recipe for happiness, and women are smart enough to recognize it. Also, women have more options - a major one becoming mothers. So less incentive to try hard, maybe? Even the article mentions that the famous female entrepreneur eventually dropped out to become a mother. Although of course in the next sentence they have to reframe it as "went to Austin for her husband's job" instead of "to become a mother". Can't have that.
I recently met a young woman who was torn between studying mathematics or becoming a social worker. I did not try to stir her towards maths, even though I myself have a maths degree. What argument could I have used, except the prospect of higher income? Frankly I think social workers are probably happier than mathematicians on average.
Re: For Stanford Class of '94, a Gender Gap More Powerful Than the Internet
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
The racial gap is present in almost all faucets of American life. That suggests a society wide issue. The gender gap is fairly unique to the tech industry and it is pretty extreme. My graduating class at Illinois for EE was 95% male.
>That suggests a society wide issue. The gender gap is every bit a society wide issue. When I was in middle school and high school, I didn't know a single girl who was interested in technology. This says that this issue begins when girls are young and is either something imprinted on them by society or something that is innate. I haven't seen anything that suggests that our industry is more able to solve the gender g…
Certain aspects of male/female difference are definitely innate. For example, among young infants, females are more interested in faces and people, while males are more interested in mechanical objects. I believe a study showed this effect was present & statistically significant only a short time after birth (too soon to be influenced by culture).
There are well-known differences in brain structure, such as the portions of brain used for language. Women have an edge in verbal reasoning, while men in spatial.
Male IQ has more variability than female IQ, resulting in more men in both the top and bottom percentiles. This may explain why more men are executives, and why more men are homeless (that's just my suspicion). Studies have also found that male IQ is higher on average by (variously) 3-5 points. From my personal observations, men are more likely than women to focus intensively on one activity, to the exclusion of all others, like skateboarding, or surfing, or computer programming, or gaming.
Men weigh more than women, have more muscle mass, have 40-60% more upper body strength, and 25-30% lower body strength, though with training the gap narrows to 0-8% (so perhaps this difference is more cultural). Men outperform women in most athletic areas, though perhaps not in distance running. Women live years longer than men and have lower rates of mental illness.
Women and men earn equal pay when you control for the job worked, the hours worked, and the amount of experience. I believe a study showed that single male and female professionals with no dependents, equal time in the workforce, working equal hours, earned equal amounts. The pay gap arises because slightly fewer women work high-paying jobs, they work fewer hours per week / take more time off, and drop out of the workforce at higher rates (e.g. stay at home parent).
A good summary of research and sources are available in Wikipedia articles like "Sex differences in intelligence" and "Sex differences in psychology". Certainly do not take my word for any of this, and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally, I think we should make sure that every person is judged based on individual merit, and be encouraged and supported to pursue what they're interested in with no preconceptions. That's what equality means to me.