Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're missing his point. "Interests" is a technical term in economics which means something different from the common usage. In short, it means things you consciously seek for their own value. Love, being moral, fulfilling duties; all of these are interests in the sense economists use the term. NB: Economists largely study specifically monetary interest because it's something they can measure. A number of criticisms…
The problem with the concept of "utility" as introduced by economists is that it is commonly used in a bait-and-switch. You can either use utility as a technical and unassailable term, taking it as axiomatic that humans are utility-maximizers. As a consequence, the term becomes vacuous, because whatever any human does at any point in time, well, it must have been because she or he had some unobservable notion of util…
Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
61–70 of 91 posts
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#62This reminds of a thought I had a few months ago: how have there not been more thought pieces relating Uber-the-business's recent/relentless PR-debacles to Nietzsche's Ubermensch concept? I guess I'll give it a go. Uber/Travis and his execs seem to demonstrate the belief that they are "overmen" in that they seem to believe that they transcend the rules of society and are destined to shape society and its values rathe…
> Note on Nietzche: In Thus Spake Zarathrusa, the "uberman" concept is (maybe) considered a positive that humanity should work towards in the absence of belief in God, and I think it can still be understood as such. The problem is that, in the absence of God, there is no absolute morality that is not the result of an arbitrary choice. When the "uberman" arises, he/she creates a new morality, which is needed in the mo…
I'll avoid a Christian-love-based-rant here =) Suffice it to say I was trying to be objective/forgiving/understanding of the uberman concept, but end of the day I'm pretty sure it's a bad deal for everyone involved haha
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#63"Homo economicus, is a creature of coldly calculated selfishness, dispassionately maximizing its best interests even if that comes at the expense of others." For the second time today, I get to point out that in economics is neutral about "best interests" and is metaphorically happy to accommodate people whom consider happiness or other such "soft" things as part of their personal value function. If your definition o…
George Price created a mathematical theory that altruism works with game theory in evolutionary terms. In an attempt to prove the theory either way he adopted increasingly altruistic behaviour and become more religiously devout. He ended up broke having given away all his possessions, becoming depressed due to the number of times he was taken advantage of. He killed himself in 1975. His atheist colleague converted to…
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#64I find strange that the HE's decided not to lie on the tests. Given that it was a game, and they knew they were being tested, I would have thought that "appearing generous and well-disposed to the testers and other participants" (even if they were not like that in real life) would benefit their self-interest more than "winning fictional money" (and risking looking like a self-centered person). The first benefit is sm…
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#65"Homo economicus, is a creature of coldly calculated selfishness, dispassionately maximizing its best interests even if that comes at the expense of others." For the second time today, I get to point out that in economics is neutral about "best interests" and is metaphorically happy to accommodate people whom consider happiness or other such "soft" things as part of their personal value function. If your definition o…
Though economics is value-neutral when it comes to what individuals define as their best interests, institutions have their best interests defined quite explicitly, and are often indifferent to any other outcome. Applying the rational actor model to such institutions provides a great deal of cover, if not active encouragement, for maximizing the acquisition of power and resources with little regard for the irrational human processes of morality, responsibility and decency.
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#66This reminds of a thought I had a few months ago: how have there not been more thought pieces relating Uber-the-business's recent/relentless PR-debacles to Nietzsche's Ubermensch concept? I guess I'll give it a go. Uber/Travis and his execs seem to demonstrate the belief that they are "overmen" in that they seem to believe that they transcend the rules of society and are destined to shape society and its values rathe…
> Note on Nietzche: In Thus Spake Zarathrusa, the "uberman" concept is (maybe) considered a positive that humanity should work towards in the absence of belief in God, and I think it can still be understood as such. The problem is that, in the absence of God, there is no absolute morality that is not the result of an arbitrary choice. When the "uberman" arises, he/she creates a new morality, which is needed in the mo…
Seems likely what we really have in the words of the gods is simply a collection of more uberman psychopathy. Which leads us right back to the inevitability of lack of absolutes.
Maybe we would be better off dealing with this as is?
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
They outrightly express resistance to laws-as-is Here, I found another arrogant law-defying übermensch-wannabe for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi
For sure - Gandhi (and pretty much anyone who we consider to have "changed the world" - MLK, Steve Jobs, etc.) fits a lot of the uberman characteristics - hence my note re: the fact that the uberman is actually viewed as a positive. Distinction here for me is that Gandhi and/or MLK and/or Pussy Riot relied on and broke certain social rules based on what I consider to be moral abstractions that (I would argue) (1) pre…
Keep in mind that at the time Gandhi and MLK were acting, the "right-thinking" dominant majority would have had the same reaction to them - sure, the British might not be perfect, but is it really necessary to cause all this awful fuss about it? Why not just work with them and try and be reasonable? Sure, blacks might not have everything the way they'd like it in the South, but let's not get too extreme here people!
Of course now we all know that negotiating with and beseeching the power agents in these cases was never going to work - the British were never interested in giving up their golden goose, and the whites in the South were never interested in treating blacks as equals. These systems had to be fought against and willfully resisted for people to see what happened when those in power asserted their entrenched position, to understand that it was an absurd, unjust, and exploitative power structure shielding itself with flimsy moral justifications. Change required swimming against the tide of social opinion. Of course now it's all very easy to say "well they were right and weren't they wonderful people" and forget the fact that at the time they were hated.
People in the future may well look back at companies like Uber and similarly appreciate the service they did to humanity by fighting incumbent, corrupted institutions, by fighting for the right for people to make their own decisions about the services they purchase, the contracts they enter into, and the risks they are willing to bear. They may well realise that at the time there was no point negotiating or pleading with the various feudal power brokers of the world - these city halls were never interested in giving up their rights to say who was allowed to sell what to whom under what conditions and at what price - they were too corrupted and no longer really existed to serve their putative original purpose.
You might feel like Uber rubs you the wrong way but at the very least you should realise that there is a significant possibility that people in the future will see you as naive and socialised as those who felt distaste and discomfort at Gandhi and MLK. That alone should give you cause to reconsider your position.
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#68This reminds of a thought I had a few months ago: how have there not been more thought pieces relating Uber-the-business's recent/relentless PR-debacles to Nietzsche's Ubermensch concept? I guess I'll give it a go. Uber/Travis and his execs seem to demonstrate the belief that they are "overmen" in that they seem to believe that they transcend the rules of society and are destined to shape society and its values rathe…
> Note on Nietzche: In Thus Spake Zarathrusa, the "uberman" concept is (maybe) considered a positive that humanity should work towards in the absence of belief in God, and I think it can still be understood as such. The problem is that, in the absence of God, there is no absolute morality that is not the result of an arbitrary choice. When the "uberman" arises, he/she creates a new morality, which is needed in the mo…
There's not really any way to avoid the necessity of making an arbitrary decision about which values to promote and live for, because even to stick with the status quo is an arbitrary decision to live by originally arbitrary values.
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Note on Nietzche: In Thus Spake Zarathrusa, the "uberman" concept is (maybe) considered a positive that humanity should work towards in the absence of belief in God, and I think it can still be understood as such. The problem is that, in the absence of God, there is no absolute morality that is not the result of an arbitrary choice. When the "uberman" arises, he/she creates a new morality, which is needed in the mo…
But when have the gods actually spoken? Seems likely what we really have in the words of the gods is simply a collection of more uberman psychopathy. Which leads us right back to the inevitability of lack of absolutes. Maybe we would be better off dealing with this as is?
To me, this weird alignment of the interests of self and other is pretty counterintuitive and only proven through its exercise/practice, but in any case seems pretty magical/mystical/awesome. I think the fact that a good chunk of modern social structure/law/convention is built on the restraint of the self for the benefit of others (which itself translates into net gains for society overall - magic!) is a manifestation of this fact, and also rears its head in Christianity and almost all other religions (though of course like everything in life, the good is mixed in with some fucked up stuff too).
I can’t really say I have evidence for this other than personal observation of contemporary experiences, historical analysis and my own mind’s logic, but based on those it seems to me that (1) people who treat other people poorly or indifferently seem to be relatively unhappy/dissatisfied and do not feel self-realized and feel disconnected/alienated from those around them and still yearn for more power, wealth, etc. even in spite of the fact that they have more than most and (2) people who treat others well seem to be happy and self-realized and connected to those around them and seem to be relatively satisfied with relatively less power and wealth, etc.
Similarly, societies wherein those in power treat people (relatively) fairly seem to thrive more than societies where those in power treat people unfairly - it seems that this also applies in some way to those who hold the power when comparing relative situations: would you rather be [enter name of random hundred millionaire in America] (who owns only a small portion of American wealth) or Mugabe (who owns/controls half of Zimbabwe)? (cherry-picked that one...haha but still, I don't think it's too off-point)
This is of course assuming that being happy, satisfied, connected and self-realized are in fact, things that are good and that people want, but still, it seems to hold true in my mind through my observation and experience - I’d say I started paying attention around 14, and I’m 29 now, so that’s about a 15 year experiment, and it’s been trending pretty steadily in that direction.
Re: Is Homo Economicus a Psychopath?
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
They outrightly express resistance to laws-as-is Here, I found another arrogant law-defying übermensch-wannabe for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi
For sure - Gandhi (and pretty much anyone who we consider to have "changed the world" - MLK, Steve Jobs, etc.) fits a lot of the uberman characteristics - hence my note re: the fact that the uberman is actually viewed as a positive. Distinction here for me is that Gandhi and/or MLK and/or Pussy Riot relied on and broke certain social rules based on what I consider to be moral abstractions that (I would argue) (1) pre…