Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#131

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:07 AM UTC

wahsd wrote: post #57

nichodges wrote: post #11

My initial reaction was dismay that Google seemingly didn't consult any decent auto designers on this. But then I wonder if that's actually fine. My kids will likely be baffled by the idea that we attached so much of our own identity to our cars. The financial investment in cars to make a statement about ourselves (over and above getting us from A to B) is immensely irrational. With self driving cars ownership will l…

Forget your kids... I'm baffled. I'm baffled that people are willing to squander so much money on cars, especially people who have relatively little of it. If you think about it I'm sure you pay tens of thousands of dollars on a thing that moves you around but ultimately, sits around way more than not. I am somewhat anxious to see how this plays out financially and economically otherwise. Will these cars cost the sam…

[deleted]

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#132

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:10 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #73

nichodges wrote: post #11

My initial reaction was dismay that Google seemingly didn't consult any decent auto designers on this. But then I wonder if that's actually fine. My kids will likely be baffled by the idea that we attached so much of our own identity to our cars. The financial investment in cars to make a statement about ourselves (over and above getting us from A to B) is immensely irrational. With self driving cars ownership will l…

> With self driving cars ownership will likely disappear That's a bold statement. It might become more of a luxury, i.e. something you buy when you reach a certain income, rather than something you need to live. But disappear, no, it won't. As anecdote, I can bring the experience of European life. In a lot of European towns and cities, you can live quite comfortably without a car, today -- after all, they were built…

> Rich people (or people who want to be seen as wealthy) still buy huge SUVs -- and then struggle to park them, because they're not as thin as a horse.

Do Europeans really by SUVs like that? I was under the impression a sports car like a Porsche (or even Ferrari) would be the grander status symbol?

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#133

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:13 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #75

Lots of people are point at this being Uber's future "auto-car". Here's an alternative idea: - You can buy this car. It costs $100,000. But that's okay. - When you aren't actively using it, you tell it to go "Uber mode" and pick up and drive people around as part of the "Uber Network of Cars" - You split the fee with Uber/Lyft/whoever. They get 30%, you get 70%. If the average ride pays you $7, over 5 years that's li…

> You could probably pay your car off much earlier than 5 years with more rides/higher average ride fare, after which your car is making you money. Clever people will use this extra to finance more cars to run small fleets and effectively live without working.

If it's such a great money spinner, why won't companies do that? Why do you _want_ people to own cars?

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#134

Post by rtpg » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:14 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #129

rtpg wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but the jutification for surge pricing doesn't make sense with parking. The entire premise (that I have not seen data to verify, but the premise nonetheless) is that surge pricing increases the number of drivers on the road. Are we going to build more parking spaces for half a day? "Price surging" would become a fancy word for price gouging.

Surge pricing also limits demand. And that's a good thing; it's better if there's an expensive spot available, than no cheap spots.

only better for rich people. Rent seeking does not follow free market principles (due to fixed supply), and so loses any form of moral highground in my opinion.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#135

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:15 AM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #82

millstone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family doesn't own our cars because we like driving them. We own them for convenience! The prospect of ordering a car, waiting for it to arrive, futzing with car seats, transferring car toys, dealing with scarcity and surge pricing, etc. for every trip is very unappealing. And renting is usually more expensive than owning anyways! In the near term, I'm looking forwards to hybrid assistive technologies. We took a v…

I think that virtually nobody who is certain that self-driving cars will be short-term rentals (ie, the Uber model) has children. It's a HUGE blind spot that the of course mostly very young, mostly childless tech commentariat has. The value of car ownership as a way to have large amounts of your property available at whatever location you are presently at without you constantly engaging in a bunch of loading and unlo…

> I think that virtually nobody who is certain that self-driving cars will be short-term rentals (ie, the Uber model) has children. It's a HUGE blind spot that the of course mostly very young, mostly childless tech commentariat has.

Why? Can't be less convenient than trains or planes. People take those all the time with kids. (My parents used to.)

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#136

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:17 AM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #88

millstone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family doesn't own our cars because we like driving them. We own them for convenience! The prospect of ordering a car, waiting for it to arrive, futzing with car seats, transferring car toys, dealing with scarcity and surge pricing, etc. for every trip is very unappealing. And renting is usually more expensive than owning anyways! In the near term, I'm looking forwards to hybrid assistive technologies. We took a v…

From a technology perspective as well, autonomous operations on designated sections of highways seems much more practical and nearer-term than visions of robo-Uber. I suspect a lot of the enthusiasm comes from urbanites who only marginally need a car today. And the capability gap between today's assistive technologies or even truly autonomous highway operations and being able to just virtually hail a robotic cab in a…

I think a robo-Uber is more likely. Mostly because the designated highway sections would require concerted public actions and overcoming a lot of NIMBYs.

Robo-Uber requires to solve technical problems (and some regulation). Designated lanes are more of a social problem. (We could have had automatic driving on designated roads for decades; just make the cars run on rails, too.)

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#137

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:20 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #93

jasonwilk wrote: post #16

The way Google seems to be approaching self-driving cars is the right one in my opinion. Self-driving cars will be on-demand, booked through something like Uber and will not be owned by the end-user. I feel that the other car companies working on self-driving car technology for consumers are wasting their time. The main reason I enjoy owning a nice car is that I like driving it. If I wasn't in control of driving my c…

> Self-driving cars will be on-demand Nonsense. That's just like saying taxis/cabs will negate the need for your own car. Sometimes you need a car now to goto the shops, drop your kids at doctor etc. without having to wait 10-30 minutes for a car to arrive from the other side of town.

> Nonsense. That's just like saying taxis/cabs will negate the need for your own car.

Cheap enough cabs with a minimum of latency, do.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#138

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:21 AM UTC

kandalf wrote: post #39

Given that as far as I know, roads must be extensively mapped in advance of a self-driving car going on them, there is a nice bonus of doing self-driving cars exclusively through Uber at first. Uber can know the exact route the passenger wants to take in advance, and only send cars to passengers whose routes are already mapped. Furthermore, they can choose to only send them out when the conditions are good (no snow,…

Good point! People are working on the extensive pre-map requirement, though.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#139

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:23 AM UTC

millstone wrote: post #76

jastanton wrote: post #42

Google has had much more PR about it's revolutionary tech and that has a LOT going for it. When tesla comes out with their self driving car, if it looks 100x better than this prototype, I still might pick Google. Better aesthetics with comparable functionality will win the majority of time in my book (think Android devices vs Apple devices), however when it comes times to putting my life on the line, I will go with s…

"Much more PR" than what? The only ads for self-driving cards I've seen are Ford's ads for its automatic parallel parking. And far from "dominating," Google is a small player in any market for physical goods in which it competes. They're much more likely to license their technology to other manufacturers than sell it directly to consumers.

> "Much more PR" than what? The only ads for self-driving cards I've seen are Ford's ads for its automatic parallel parking.

Ads are not the only form of PR. (They are actually some of the weakest.)

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#140

Post by eru » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 1:25 AM UTC

3apo wrote: post #34

From an economic standpoint, I would be interested to see how many OTC parts this system. That is, does it need a $1000 lidar or would it get a similar performance with a cheap $100 sensor? From a technical point of view, 25mph is very limiting IMO. You probably do not need a very sophisticated controller to navigate at 25. If you reach speeds of 60-70MPH with varying road curvatures, the controller design gets trick…

The 25 m/h speed limit is a regulatory hack. The converted normal cars already drive on the freeway (with human back-up drivers in them).