Apple goes to war with the BBC • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#41

Post by vidarh » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:27 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #24

debacle wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 60 hour work week for wage laborers should not be baseline in any country in 2014. Apple is doing what they can to exploit these workers in a PC fashion.

however nothing should prevent workers from performing a 60 hour work week should they choose.

That'd be great assuming both sides held equal power.

Both sides don't hold equal power, which is the reason it took nearly a century of demonstrations, strikes and violent confrontations to get down from 60 hours+ work weeks to ~40 (EDIT: in the US and Europe)

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#42

Post by everyone » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:29 PM UTC

wernercd wrote: post #31

xedarius wrote: post #10

I wouldn't quite call that war, more a disgruntled sigh.

That wouldn't generate as many clicks...

Agreed. One of the more egregious examples of hyperbole in an articles title, for the purpose of being clickbait, that I have seen. A better title would be; "Apple refutes BBC documentary"

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#43

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:32 PM UTC

hawleyal wrote: post #34

ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foxconn's suicide rate turns out to be lower than the Chinese general population's suicide rate. They've got the population of a good sized city. Per Wikipedia: > Although the number of workplace suicides at the company was large in absolute terms, the rate is still low when compared to the rest of China. (However, the country has a high suicide rate with over 20 deaths per 100,000 persons.) In 2010, the worst year f…

I think you need to review your position in support of sweatshops and exploitation of people in developing regions. Also, we are talking about statistics posted in China. Are you fucking kidding me?

If you're contending Foxconn has a dramatically higher suicide rate than reported, is there any evidence for the accusation?

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#44

Post by aikah » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:33 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #6

The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. That makes it more difficult to tell when a criticism of Apple is genuine, because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story can write a story about something Apple is doing not well enough and get away with it, since everyone seems to love to hate on Apple. So if Apple really is up…

> The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report.

Well given Apple insane margins,and other tricks they pull(like tax avoidance in Europe),Apple case stands out more than other brands because of the company reputation,"success" and wealth.

> because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story

There is no controversy here.Apple(and other brands) are clearly taking advantage of poor working conditions in China and other Asian countries.Nobody in the west would accept these conditions.I'm talking about the slavery like working conditions that existed in the west at the dawn of the 20th century before workers rebelled against it.

In China,well,it's just impossible for such a movement to exist.China is a bloody dictatorship.Western PR just succeeded in convincing us it wasn't.

And frankly,that story isn't really about Apple.Judging by the comments below the article,it's more about us and our denial to accept the fact that the comfort we live in is built on the pain and suffering of others on the other side of the planet. And that's how most wealth have been created through history,exploitation,through colonies,slavery, or other means.

Some people are fine with it,some people don't care,others think it doesn't exist,others think workers "are treated what they are worth",and have no problem spending insane amounts of money in the end product because of its marketing,and a last group understands that effective modern capitalism is just "rationalized predation".

edit: I edited my last sentence because I want to dissociate what thinkers like Adam Smith and others "described",and what we have today.

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#45

Post by vidarh » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:33 PM UTC

hawleyal wrote: post #34

ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foxconn's suicide rate turns out to be lower than the Chinese general population's suicide rate. They've got the population of a good sized city. Per Wikipedia: > Although the number of workplace suicides at the company was large in absolute terms, the rate is still low when compared to the rest of China. (However, the country has a high suicide rate with over 20 deaths per 100,000 persons.) In 2010, the worst year f…

I think you need to review your position in support of sweatshops and exploitation of people in developing regions. Also, we are talking about statistics posted in China. Are you fucking kidding me?

Perhaps you should present data in support of your own point instead of make accusations about the sources presented without backing them up.

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#46

Post by Zikes » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:33 PM UTC

coob wrote: post #39

Genuine question: Which large companies do supply chain auditing to the same or greater extent than Apple do? Do they make the audit publicly available as Apple do? I'd like to compare.

Walmart does a fair amount of supply chain auditing.

http://corporate.walmart.com/global-responsibility/ethical-s...

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#47

Post by Zikes » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:34 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #33

Sleeping publicly in asian cultures is perfectly normal. I remember seeing these asian students just passed out on university benches once I started studies abroad. The journalist says 'it seems that they have no choice'. So he just displayed his cultural unconsciousness and publicly alleged Apple of wrongdoing. One could easily speculate that people working in western societies are pumped up with caffeine, sugar or…

If I recall, in Japan if you're not seen sleeping at your desk then you've not been working hard enough.

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#48

Post by k-mcgrady » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:36 PM UTC

hawleyal wrote: post #38

k-mcgrady wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they blame one company. From what I've read Apple has done more than anyone else to improve the situation and yet they're the ones that constantly receive blame. Do a report on the supply chain as a whole and how the entire tech industry has workers that are being exploited. They select one company (a popular one) because it'll generate more clicks regardless of the fact that it makes the reporting slightly b…

They don't blame one company. They did an expose of one company. And one of the companies with arguably the most popular product.

The company who's also arguably doing the most to improve the situation. If the journalist actually cared about what was going on they would expose all offenders and highlight the worst, not expose the one who's already been exposed by several other journalists and is working to improve the situation.

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#49

Post by Joeboy » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #43

hawleyal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to review your position in support of sweatshops and exploitation of people in developing regions. Also, we are talking about statistics posted in China. Are you fucking kidding me?

If you're contending Foxconn has a dramatically higher suicide rate than reported, is there any evidence for the accusation?

I would contend that Foxconn employees' overall suicide rate is likely to be larger than their reported workplace suicide rate, for reasons that are presumably obvious.

Edit: Looking at http://www.wellness.com/news/6427/us-workplace-suicides-jump... , it looks like in the US workplace suicides are less than 1% of overall suicides. Doubtless different in China, but hopefully makes the point that comparing the two statistics is likely to be problematic.

Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC

#50

Post by thyrsus » Fri, Dec 19, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

xedarius wrote: post #10

I wouldn't quite call that war, more a disgruntled sigh.

Would that we aspired to that definition of "war", in which a country's response to an attack was: "I'm deeply offended. Here are the statistics concerning the behavior to which you object. Here is our program to improve."