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Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

theguardian.com

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Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#81
post #80
post #79

> “cursive” writing – in which the pen is not raised between each character – has been dropped from the Common Core Curriculum Standards, shared by all states. Since 2013 American children have been required to learn how to use a keyboard and write in print. I'm sorry. This is so ludicrous. If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, how can you be called literate? And don't come back and say, "it's pe…

> And don't come back and say, "it's perfectly fine for them to use print." I'm going to do exactly that. You having garbage print handwriting and pretty cursive hardly means that everyone is the same way. With the lack of cursive practice that most people get, you're much more likely to find someone with legibile printed handwriting than legible cursive. > If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, h…

I can say that because I don't consider myself to have truly been literate until 6 months ago, when I started using cursive. If I had written a letter to someone the way I usually wrote, they wouldn't have been able to read it if they tried. And I considered my own writing back then to be pretty okay, because I made it all the way through high school and college with it. Why all my teachers allowed me to write like that is a mystery to me.

I'm able to say this stuff because I spent about 20 years of my life not using cursive at all, filling whole notebooks with print, then suddenly using it and filling notebooks with cursive. So the difference is very clear to me.

Edit: And plus, you missed the whole second part of my comment where I said that even if they can print neatly, they certainly can't do it quickly, so it's still not as good as cursive in that regard.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#82
Funny, just got an email from my 4y/o's montessori school explaining why they start with cursive!

"It is commonly asked why children learn cursive writing instead of print in Montessori classrooms. From a practical point of view, it is thought that very young children's scribbles and early drawings are flowing and circular, more like cursive writing; making it more natural to learn first. At the Casa level, children love to repeat things making it a good time to practice penmanship. Given the distinct shape of each cursive letter, there is less confusion and less tendency to reverse letters such as b, d, p, and q. In printing there can be a tendency to mix upper and lower case letters together (e.g. CaNada,) which does not usually happen with cursive letters. Cursive also seems to be a more efficient way of writing since the letters are joined together.

Another reason stems from the fact that in Montessori schools children write before they read. In traditional schools, children in the first years of school are learning to read and write simultaneously and can be confused if they are learning to write in cursive and read in print. In Montessori, when the child is three and four years old, he is learning how to 'write'. He learns the sounds the letters make, learns to recognize them and learns how to form them. Once he knows the sounds, he can put sounds together to write words with the Movable Alphabet (cut out cursive letters that can be moved about freely and combined to make words) and eventually, with pencil and paper. For children who come to school knowing the alphabet names associated to print letters, it helps that the cursive letters look different when they learn the sounds of the letters. As a further step, children learn to read. When this happens they read print letters. Once children know the cursive letters, they are usually able to easily recognize the printed letters. So, they have the advantage over children who have learned to recognize print first and do not necessarily recognize cursive letters."

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#83

Handwriting is only good if you can actually read your own handwriting. My handwriting is shit. Terrible. Infact it is so bad I almost failed school. At the age of 5 I was told by various authority figures that I was thick because I couldn't write. I vividly remember being told that some people have dyslexia, and that why they can't write, however I'm just slow, and that I'll have to just try harder. Fortunately my m…

Out of curiosity, why do you think your handwriting is so bad? Motor skills or something cognitive? E.g. can you draw, solder, sculpt? Do you believe its a trade-off with a different type of skill that you have as a particular strength? Mine tends to vary. Occasionally its beautiful, mostly its average and sometimes its scrawl no matter the effort. I'm not sure about the mechanism behind the difference.

My fine motor skills are "unrefined" shall we say. My drawing is equally rubbish, soldering is good though (surface mount and everything!)

the label that was finally attached was dysgraphia. However any skill that I learned after the age of about 16 is largely unaffected. I learnt drumming from 16, and fencing at 19, and there is no problem there, however tennis I fail horribly at, lacrosse I'm ok at.

I have a journal that I draw in, however its a real effort to write legibly. Its terribly frustrating to write long words so I sort of scribble the intermediate letters.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#84
post #77

I hate it that there's such a large dichotomy between typing and handwriting. I hand-write stuff all the time. Not because I'm a doddering fossil or because I'm a luddite or anything like that...I find that hand-writing notes from class helps me remember them better, and hand-writing letters and cards gives a much more personal touch. But then I have all these sheafs of dead trees that I have to deal with. I need to…

One of the best things I did personally was to overhaul my shitty handwriting into something I'm actually happy with, and isn't just "how things panned out".

I'm saying this because doing such a thing, in your case, could very well turn out to work towards making your handwriting tech compatible as well, thus eliminating that hurdle. Win-win, really.

Edit: As a further advantage, I actively think of the way I write and incrementally improve upon certain letters for efficiency and legibility. Pardon me for tooting my horn so vigorously. XD

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#85
Typing just adds another level to writing. For me it's like a check function that spots flow inconsistencies or brings up better choices of words, whereas the handwriting feels "organic". There is a more archaic, immediate, sensual sensori-motor connection between the ideas and the output. That's the type of connection that cursive consolidates (which is why I think it's priceless to teach kids cursive vs. script). Having learned to type on a typewriter (!) I see a huge difference in the way ideas flow due to the way word-processors have evolved. Maybe speed has something to do with this but I'm not sure. Using both definitely enriches writing.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#86
post #79

> “cursive” writing – in which the pen is not raised between each character – has been dropped from the Common Core Curriculum Standards, shared by all states. Since 2013 American children have been required to learn how to use a keyboard and write in print. I'm sorry. This is so ludicrous. If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, how can you be called literate? And don't come back and say, "it's pe…

> Now, I refuse to print anything unless I have to. Cursive is so much easier, so much faster, so much more legible, so much neater.

I respectfully disagree. As someone who has had the "pleasure" of trying to grade college level assignments from best to worst: typed, printed, and then cursive as a distant last.

Cursive is faster to write, but it being more legible and neater is debatable. Obviously it varies based on who wrote the cursive or print, but broadly speaking print is a lot more consistent between individuals than cursive is.

A lot of doctor scripts now need to be printed, because cursive caused too many enquiries/bounces and incorrect prescriptions. Although bad hand-writing often comes up when the talk of electronic patient records is discussed/promoted.

Cursive's only real benefit is speed. Maybe someone could argue that it is visually "prettier" to look at (I'd agree). But in terms of productivity speed is the only main draw.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#87

I think it is. Scientists all carry around laboratory notebooks that they write in by hand. While I can type faster than I can write, if I observe something that I want to record for later consideration, it's a lot quicker for me to whip out my notebook and a pen, than to whip out my computer, log in, launch a text editor then save my document.

Scientists all carry around laboratory notebooks that they write in by hand.

Not to be overall pedantic, but hand written lab notebooks are being replaced by electronic versions. That changed (in private labs) started back in the early 2000's.

In fact, if electronic notebooks are available, scientists are usually encouraged to not write anything down by hand as it might interfere with IP claims.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#88
post #77

I hate it that there's such a large dichotomy between typing and handwriting. I hand-write stuff all the time. Not because I'm a doddering fossil or because I'm a luddite or anything like that...I find that hand-writing notes from class helps me remember them better, and hand-writing letters and cards gives a much more personal touch. But then I have all these sheafs of dead trees that I have to deal with. I need to…

I must have missed the memo - at what point did writing become equated with being a doddering fossil or luddite? :-)

(Not that you were implying either)

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#89
post #81
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And don't come back and say, "it's perfectly fine for them to use print." I'm going to do exactly that. You having garbage print handwriting and pretty cursive hardly means that everyone is the same way. With the lack of cursive practice that most people get, you're much more likely to find someone with legibile printed handwriting than legible cursive. > If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, h…

I can say that because I don't consider myself to have truly been literate until 6 months ago, when I started using cursive. If I had written a letter to someone the way I usually wrote, they wouldn't have been able to read it if they tried. And I considered my own writing back then to be pretty okay, because I made it all the way through high school and college with it. Why all my teachers allowed me to write like t…

Your definition of literacy and the popular view are dissimilar. The common definition is just "the ability to read and write." Nothing more, nothing less.

I looked for a definition which contained the term "cursive" and was unable to find one.

Re: Handwriting vs. typing: is the pen still mightier than the keyboard?

#90
post #79

> “cursive” writing – in which the pen is not raised between each character – has been dropped from the Common Core Curriculum Standards, shared by all states. Since 2013 American children have been required to learn how to use a keyboard and write in print. I'm sorry. This is so ludicrous. If you can't write legibly unless you're using a computer, how can you be called literate? And don't come back and say, "it's pe…

> Now, I refuse to print anything unless I have to. Cursive is so much easier, so much faster, so much more legible, so much neater. I respectfully disagree. As someone who has had the "pleasure" of trying to grade college level assignments from best to worst: typed, printed, and then cursive as a distant last. Cursive is faster to write, but it being more legible and neater is debatable. Obviously it varies based on…

I appreciate the respectful counterpoint. I don't mean disrespect for the other side of the debate either. It's hyperbole -- so I don't understand why I'm being downvoted for bringing a legitimate point.

I think you and the other commenter are missing my point. Like all languages that use the Roman alphabet, English has a printed form and a scripted form. It seems they're going to only teach one of the two, and for what? Typing? Typing is only useful if you use a computer, and writing is part of basic literacy.

Don't get me wrong -- I am happy I know how to type. But I'm also happy I know how to write cursive. I don't understand what they're adding to the curriculum that's so important that they are dropping cursive.

Perhaps you had a hard time reading the cursive papers, and that's understandable. But if their papers were that messy, then it seems to me that the solution is to spend more time on perfecting their cursive -- not throwing up our hands and eliminating script entirely from the curriculum.

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