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Android: I don't need your permission

blog.danlew.net

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Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#91

Post by kijin »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #85
mrpdaemon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chain of trust doesn't quite stop at compiling the source, in order to be really sure that nothing unintended is going on you have to compile the compiler yourself. At the end of the day you will have to trust some bootstrapping binary compiler unless you put it together yourself in machine language.

Actually, you don't. You can use two different compilers that compile each other to prove that the compilation won't be tampered with. See https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_tr...

What if both compilers are backdoored?

It's not like you have a large choice of good compilers for any given language/platform pair.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#92

Post by mikeash »

mbesto wrote: post #80
Someone1234 wrote: post #12

> If your app is closed-source then they have no way of verifying you're not downloading all their contacts to their servers. That's a common fallacy. Even if it is open source someone could still be doing that. In order to be secure you would have to: A) Download the source yourself B) Inspect the source C) Compile the source Just because you have the source doesn't mean what you get from the Play Store/Amazon App s…

Apple's wall garden is looking a little more rosy isn't it?

That assumes that Apple fulfills the role of "someone you trust do A through C." Even if you trust Apple's intentions, they don't do a very good job of checking apps for actual damaging stuff (as opposed to irrelevant crap that offends their sensibilities), so it's not helpful.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#93

Post by pbhjpbhj »

marvy wrote: post #63
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So without asking my permission // You give your permission when you install it with auto-update enabled. I always disable auto-update.

Yes, but this relies on the program being friendly enough to give you a choice. The OS is not blocking it, it voluntarily refrains. Some are not so polite. For instance, Google Chrome auto-updates without asking permission, and the only way to stop it on Windows is to edit some registry setting. It will update even when it is not running, which annoys me since I have Chrome installed and don't use it, and every so of…

AFAIR Adobe Viewer does give that option, generally I'm sure you're right.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#94

Post by mikeash »

lucas-be wrote: post #25
tjbiddle wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However that's not the only use case for android.permission.INTERNET - you need it for anything that does networking on the internet, such as API calls to your web application.

So the entire computer world had run like this for decade. why are people complaining about that now? Because Apple is doing strict verification of your code behaviour? Yesterday adobe pdf viewer tell me that an update was available both on my mac and pc! So without asking my permission, this computer application (and many others) are querying the web...

People have been complaining about it for ages. Firewalls for outgoing connections are ancient technology. Like a lot of things that people rely on, the functionality is gradually moving into the OS proper.

A lot of people get upset at PC programs that do things like query for updates without permission.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#95

Post by iscrewyou »

jbk wrote: post #41

I wish it was that easy in all cases. For VLC on Android, we need the READ_PHONE_STATE permission, in order to stop the music when a phone call is coming in. We just use it to make pause on incoming call. (VLC on Android is also an audio player, with a background audio service). The catch is, this is not an Intent you can send or request easily. We tried so many other ways, but none work. But on the play store it's w…

This. This is why I am moving to iOS.

I installed Pocket. It wanted permission Contacts and Calendar. Contacts, I understand for sharing purposes. Calendar? Yeah, fuck off.

Maybe they are bundled together like "read phone status and identity" and Pocket has no way around it. Maybe it is not. As a user, I should not have to worry about that.

Contact and Calendar in no way should be bundled together.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#96

Post by swatow »

This is interesting because it's essentially the same security model as the web.

Your app runs in a controlled environment, and it has the option to nest another app (on the web, in an iframe) which it can send messages to, but can't affect the code or UI of.

The fact that the UI cannot be manipulated by the nesting app, is crucial, since it allows the security model to tie certain user actions, like pressing dial, to certain actions, like making a phone call.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#97

Post by gabemart »

quantumet wrote: post #56
masklinn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For VLC on Android, we need the READ_PHONE_STATE permission, in order to stop the music when a phone call is coming in. We just use it to make pause on incoming call. It's seriously back-asswards that you'd have to have access to all phone state just to be able to start and stop audio on phone calls. By comparison iOS has an audio interruption system which gets triggered on phone calls, alarms (calendar and clock)…

So does Android: http://developer.android.com/training/managing-audio/audio-f... http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2013/08/respecting-au...

This simply doesn't work for pausing audio when the phone rings. The ringer doesn't request audio focus.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#98

Post by gabemart »

jbk wrote: post #41

I wish it was that easy in all cases. For VLC on Android, we need the READ_PHONE_STATE permission, in order to stop the music when a phone call is coming in. We just use it to make pause on incoming call. (VLC on Android is also an audio player, with a background audio service). The catch is, this is not an Intent you can send or request easily. We tried so many other ways, but none work. But on the play store it's w…

I also have an audio app with a background audio service on Google Play, and I also have to request the READ_PHONE_STATE permission. I have an explanation in my store listing but I still get emails about it every week.

It's totally nuts. Knowing the phone is ringing or off the hook should not be privileged information.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#99

Post by click170 »

Aldo_MX wrote: post #90
habosa wrote: post #83

There are two additions to the permissions API that I think would be very helpful: 1) Incremental Authorization - let Android apps ask for permissions only as they need them. So if you never use the phone dialing feature, they never ask for the permission. 2) One-time auth - allow an Android app to do something once. Say, scan your contacts one time. This gives you a little more control, so you know the dev isn't mon…

1) Incremental Authorization - let Android apps ask for permissions only as they need them. So if you never use the phone dialing feature, they never ask for the permission. Not only incremental authorization, but the ability of denying specific permissions.

Take it a step further, I should be able to forge the contacts in my address book, my GPS coordinates, the list of installed apps.. The list goes on.

But I would happily start with incremental permissions. Baby steps.

Re: Android: I don't need your permission

#100

Post by dllthomas »

gabemart wrote: post #98
jbk wrote: post #41

I wish it was that easy in all cases. For VLC on Android, we need the READ_PHONE_STATE permission, in order to stop the music when a phone call is coming in. We just use it to make pause on incoming call. (VLC on Android is also an audio player, with a background audio service). The catch is, this is not an Intent you can send or request easily. We tried so many other ways, but none work. But on the play store it's w…

I also have an audio app with a background audio service on Google Play, and I also have to request the READ_PHONE_STATE permission. I have an explanation in my store listing but I still get emails about it every week. It's totally nuts. Knowing the phone is ringing or off the hook should not be privileged information.

"Knowing the phone is ringing or off the hook should not be privileged information."

It seems like it could be a privacy concern. It seems a common enough need that it probably shouldn't be lumped together with other things, though.

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