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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#161

Post by eru »

saganus wrote: post #152
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

This sounds like this would be fertile grounds for an airline to be disruptive. Imagine what would happen if there was an airline that could set fixed prices for, let's say, the next 2 or 4 weeks. So you can search for a ticket price on the 1st of a month and it would be the same as on the last day of the month. I know that this is probably not realistic since you can't just open up an airline like you can a startup,…

It's actually pretty easy to open an airline, all things considered. You don't need that much capital, since you can lease the planes. And you get your fare revenue before you render the service---ie an inherently cash flow positive business.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#162

Post by MichaelGG »

monksy wrote: post #55
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all. If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says: "the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alli…

That's because they're a huge international airline and they have to keep things kosher. GS is a special invite status reserved for celebrities and high ranking politicians. My assumption is that they need that space so that they can load the person from the tarmac or have them check out of the airport. Thats speculation, but those individuals do have different needs from an airline. [Also onboarding needs as well as…

GS folks board normally, though sometimes will get called by name to board first. GS is invited essentially on revenue only (though perhaps special people have special handling). If your spend is above $50k, you probably have a fair chance of getting invited to GS.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#163

Post by eru »

Avenger42 wrote: post #61
izacus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. I see this argument a lot of time but I still don't really know how exactly that redeems companies bad business practices and user hostility. What is the purpose of this argument? Saying that it's ok? If not, what else? Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices?

> Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices? It depends on where you're going. If it's an overseas trip, you could video conference or telecommute. If it's not, you could drive yourself or take a bus.

Or a train.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#164

Post by MichaelGG »

spdustin wrote: post #16
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

Um... All airports with United or American lounges? It's $50 a day, though. With American, they actively try to sell you a day pass on their in-airport check-in terminals. Edit: please don't correct actual life experience with a quote from Wikipedia. United Club is the name of their "first class" lounge, as people incorrectly refer to them. Those United Club Lounges have complimentary booze [1]. And no airline is goi…

United Clubs simply aren't first class lounges. Just because a true fact is on Wikipedia doesn't make it less true. Also the complimentary booze has been pretty cut back and they now charge bar-like prices for many items. In general their service level for first class passengers in their main region seems to be declining (particularly the in flight meals-I've had stuff I'd send back at a burger king).

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#165

Post by MichaelGG »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #71
Someone1234 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't their point. In most of the world if a product's price tag says X then you pay exactly X at the register (e.g. £2 sandwich costs exactly £2 in cash, you hand then exactly £2 and leave). In the US that is not the case. Almost everything has a "hidden fee." You go buy a $2 sandwich but pay $2 + 6% ($2.12), if you get food in a restaurant you pay $price + 15-20%, an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is ac…

It's far from "a hidden fee." You simply have to know the rules. In some states, there is sales tax. In others, none. Sales tax may or may not be applied to clothing depending on state. Sales tax may or may not be applied to food, or only some kinds of food (e.g., alcohol always taxed), or only to food above a certain threshold. All in all there's nothing hidden about sales tax. It shouldn't be a surprise that people…

There's also "taxes" inside malls, counties, and cities. And various vendors take different approaches to how they collect. In SF, I've seen surcharges for some "restaurant employement" thing, and have noted different rates at different restaurants.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#166

Post by sib »

pbreit wrote: post #154

An article like this needs to at least mention that the relatively unsophisticated pricing approach by Southwest has led it to generally outperform the rest of its competition for decades (I know, staying out of bankruptcy is not a very high bar).

Much of Southwest's profitability actually comes from doing a great job hedging against fuel cost changes, rather than making extraordinary margins on the seats.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#167

Post by npizzolato »

eru wrote: post #163
Avenger42 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices? It depends on where you're going. If it's an overseas trip, you could video conference or telecommute. If it's not, you could drive yourself or take a bus.

Or a train.

In the US? Hah. I once looked up the time it would take to take a train from Seattle to Chicago. Three days, one way. I would have to spend a week vacation just traveling to and from my destination. The flight between those two cities is four hours. Trains in the US are substitutes for driving, not flying.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#168

Post by prostoalex »

jexe wrote: post #20

So has anyone built a site that lets you put limit orders on airline seats yet? I'd love to, say, have something automatically book a $250 flight across the country if the price happens to cross that threshold in the next week.

Priceline.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#169

Post by dllthomas »

gaius wrote: post #114
exelius wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care if they're a private business. That means nothing to me. When all airlines have the same tiny seats and no alternative that isn't 5-10x more expensive, that is collusion, not competition. It's not collusion, because air travel is effectively a commoditized market. That means there is continuous downward pressure on pricing exactly because the product is nearly identical everywhere. It is a zero-sum gam…

Indeed. Everyone says they want legroom! then everyone goes on the internet and just buys whatever's cheapest. Same with people who talk about workers rights then go shop at Primark.

I think a part of this, though, is that everything is geared toward comparing only price. I don't fly often enough to have a good sense of what airlines are going to genuinely be more comfortable, so I weigh more heavily the thing I'm more certain of. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be willing to pay more for a more comfortable flight.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#170

Post by dllthomas »

earlz wrote: post #42
zrail wrote: post #26

Southwest, as far as I can tell, doesn't change rates once they've published. Three rate tiers, optional early check-in to get a better boarding order position, and free baggage. The most striking difference is that, in general, the flight attendants are happy . They smile. They joke around. Sometimes they sing songs. I was on a flight a few months ago where the entire plane played a game because it was someone's bir…

I'm not 100% sure it is "legal", but I had the pleasure of flying on southwest with them half-singing half-joking throughout the mandatory safety stuff.. it was a pretty hilarious change of pace. Unfortunately, Southwest, though fairly cheap for where I go, has 2 stops minimum no matter what where as everywhere else can make it 1 stop

"half-singing half-joking throughout the mandatory safety stuff."

I've taken to exclaiming "Oooh!" when they show us how to buckle our seat belts.

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