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Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

marketwatch.com

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Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#11

Post by MAGZine »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #6
snarfy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure he was still a senator when it happened.

It's worth noting there has been further decline since 2010, which is wholly in Obama's term as President.

It's also worth noting that he inherited a hundred years of other president's failure and successes. Pinning the upward or downward movement of such a sweeping figure onto one person is the definition of disingenuous.

e: not to mention my sibbling's comment that no, the president does not control the economy, the industry, people's spending and borrowing habits. Heck, not even the Fed. Reserve.

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#12

Post by rayiner »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

Absolute trash analysis. Worse than garbage. I say worse because the analysis is so catastrophically wrong that the complete inverse could be true. It's using average. Average is a terrible data point. I think if you replace 'average' with 'median' you'll have something more useful >95% of the time. Maybe more. For example, it is widely circulated that the gains have all gone to the rich. Well the losses also went to…

It's clearly using median net worth. As indicated by the label on the chart that says "median net worth."

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#13

Post by wavefunction »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

Absolute trash analysis. Worse than garbage. I say worse because the analysis is so catastrophically wrong that the complete inverse could be true. It's using average. Average is a terrible data point. I think if you replace 'average' with 'median' you'll have something more useful >95% of the time. Maybe more. For example, it is widely circulated that the gains have all gone to the rich. Well the losses also went to…

I downvoted you for your trash analysis. I will be back this evening (1:45PM here at the moment) and I will cite sources until you scream for mercy. The loss of wealth for the average American (note I didn't say MEDIAN lol) is well-established at this point.

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#14

Post by waterlesscloud »

MAGZine wrote: post #11
waterlesscloud wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting there has been further decline since 2010, which is wholly in Obama's term as President.

It's also worth noting that he inherited a hundred years of other president's failure and successes. Pinning the upward or downward movement of such a sweeping figure onto one person is the definition of disingenuous. e: not to mention my sibbling's comment that no, the president does not control the economy, the industry, people's spending and borrowing habits. Heck, not even the Fed. Reserve.

And yet the same President in question earns praise for decreasing unemployment and increasing GDP, even though he has the same lack of control over those.

If you take credit for the good, you have to take blame for the bad.

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#15

Post by jpetersonmn »

pvnick wrote: post #9

"The recession is over" has always struck me a political double-speak. We never left the recession; mainstream America just collectively forgot how it felt to have enough money. We have become accustomed to the 60 hour work weeks for folks fortunate enough to have jobs, chronic unemployment for those unfortunate enough to work outside of tech, the cheaper processed food, the increasing debt, and the lower standard of…

How do you figure we haven't left the recession? Since June 09 we've been growing and not shrinking, which means the recession was over. It may not be the boom we all want, however the recession is over by any reasonable measure.

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#16

Post by Someone1234 »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

Absolute trash analysis. Worse than garbage. I say worse because the analysis is so catastrophically wrong that the complete inverse could be true. It's using average. Average is a terrible data point. I think if you replace 'average' with 'median' you'll have something more useful >95% of the time. Maybe more. For example, it is widely circulated that the gains have all gone to the rich. Well the losses also went to…

They did use median[0] in the research.

[0] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealt...

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#17

Post by jinpa_zangpo »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

Absolute trash analysis. Worse than garbage. I say worse because the analysis is so catastrophically wrong that the complete inverse could be true. It's using average. Average is a terrible data point. I think if you replace 'average' with 'median' you'll have something more useful >95% of the time. Maybe more. For example, it is widely circulated that the gains have all gone to the rich. Well the losses also went to…

The article says "median net worth."

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#18

Post by bmm6o »

pvnick wrote: post #9

"The recession is over" has always struck me a political double-speak. We never left the recession; mainstream America just collectively forgot how it felt to have enough money. We have become accustomed to the 60 hour work weeks for folks fortunate enough to have jobs, chronic unemployment for those unfortunate enough to work outside of tech, the cheaper processed food, the increasing debt, and the lower standard of…

Given that there's an objective definition of "recession" it's not correct to call it double-speak. You can say that people talk about the wrong thing, or that growth isn't what's important, or whatever, but that's a different argument.

> I wonder what the phrase "double dip recession"

Not as rigorous, but not made up whole cloth: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/doublediprecession.asp

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#19

Post by aero142 »

jpetersonmn wrote: post #15
pvnick wrote: post #9

"The recession is over" has always struck me a political double-speak. We never left the recession; mainstream America just collectively forgot how it felt to have enough money. We have become accustomed to the 60 hour work weeks for folks fortunate enough to have jobs, chronic unemployment for those unfortunate enough to work outside of tech, the cheaper processed food, the increasing debt, and the lower standard of…

How do you figure we haven't left the recession? Since June 09 we've been growing and not shrinking, which means the recession was over. It may not be the boom we all want, however the recession is over by any reasonable measure.

The word recession has a technical definition about a shrinking GDP, and a common usage that basically means, lots of people or companies have job/money problems more than normal. You have to figure out which one people are talking about from the context.

Re: Americans are 40% poorer than before the recession

#20

Post by MrZongle2 »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #14
MAGZine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that he inherited a hundred years of other president's failure and successes. Pinning the upward or downward movement of such a sweeping figure onto one person is the definition of disingenuous. e: not to mention my sibbling's comment that no, the president does not control the economy, the industry, people's spending and borrowing habits. Heck, not even the Fed. Reserve.

And yet the same President in question earns praise for decreasing unemployment and increasing GDP, even though he has the same lack of control over those. If you take credit for the good, you have to take blame for the bad.

Now how are we supposed to cheer for Team Pepsi or Team Coke if we do that?
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